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Photo Software/Computer

Software basics

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#1 of 147

     Posted 7/12/08 5:37 AM   
Fabrizio R. IT
 
From  Fabrizio R. IT  Posts 5  Last 7/19/08
To  All      [Msg # 34277.1 ]    
I am new to digital photography after 20 years of using different Nikon film camera. I got now a Nikon D60 and I am trying to adapt myself.
I am now a bit lost about the offer of different (and pricy) softwares available.
Can anyone explain what are the differences and advantages among Photoshop elements, Nikon capture NX2 and Adobe Lughtroom?
I imagine that there are differences but I am not to familiar with the treatment of digital photo and therefore I do not know what to buy.
Another small question: nobody here seems to use the Paint Shop Pro of Corel? any specific reason?
Thank you in advance

Edited 7/12/08   by  Fabrizio R. IT
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#2 of 147

     Posted 7/12/08 7:44 AM   
Mike Hughes
 
From  Mike Hughes  Posts 630  Last 4/29/09
To  Fabrizio R. IT      [Msg # 34277.2 Message 34277.2 replying to 34277.1 34277.1 ]    
righetti789

Another option is GIMP which is free.  It is not quite in the same league as Photoshop but it is not far off.  It is a big, complex program which requires some study to master.  The manual, which can be downloaded or read online, is getting to be pretty good although it usually lags behind the latest release of the software.  There are also textbooks such as Beginning GIMP by Akkana Peck.  GIMP was originally written for Linux but is now available for Windows and Mac.  You need a plug-in to handle "raw" images.  UFRaw works well and is also free and available for all platforms.

I think that Paintshop is an artists program for creating original images rather than manipulating photographic images.

Mike

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#3 of 147

     Posted 7/12/08 10:32 AM   
SKYockey (Canon Digital Rebel XSi)
 
From  SKYockey (Canon Digital Rebel XSi)  Posts 487  Last Nov-19
To  Fabrizio R. IT      [Msg # 34277.3 Message 34277.3 replying to 34277.1 34277.1 ]    
Personal experience - I used to buy/use the full version of Photoshop but stopped upgrading about version 7 (quite a few years ago). For my last computer purchase (in February) I had to get something new as PSv7 would not run on the new OS. I got the latest version of Photoshop Elements (version 6, less than $100) and have been very satisfied.

- Sky
"Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." - Henry David Thoreau
See my photos at: http://skyockey.smugmug.com/
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#4 of 147

     Posted 7/12/08 3:00 PM   
Ron Wrucke-VA Eastern Shore
 
From  Ron Wrucke-VA Eastern Shore  Posts 3303  Last 9/17/08
To  Fabrizio R. IT      [Msg # 34277.4 Message 34277.4 replying to 34277.1 34277.1 ]    
<<Another small question: nobody here seems to use the Paint Shop Pro of Corel? any specific reason?>>

I don't know about Paint Shop Pro, but I used Corel PhotoPaint (bundled with Corel Draw) for 10-12 years.  I finally made the jump to Photoshop for several reasons.  At the time of the jump, PhotoPaint was very similar feature-wise to P'shop, but nobody else used it so if I needed to discuss techniques I was a voice crying in the wilderness.  At about the same time, I bought a Nikon D100, and Corel was very slow to add a RAW converter.  I eventually modified my workflow to using Nikon Capture (since evolved to NX and NX2) and Photoshop.
I think PaintShop Pro was a Corel acquisition (can't remember the original name on the box?), but the Adobe products are the de facto standards .. everybody uses them and the internet is littered with tips, technique threads, and tutorials ...

Ron Wrucke
Eastern Shore Imaging
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#5 of 147

     Posted 7/12/08 10:15 PM   
Jeff Peterman
 
From  Jeff Peterman  Posts 5373  Last Nov-21
To  Fabrizio R. IT      [Msg # 34277.5 Message 34277.5 replying to 34277.1 34277.1 ]    

Well, the three packages you mentioned have different purposes. PhotoShop Elements is primarily an image editing program - you can use it to change details in an image (e.g., if you have two sequential group shots and you want to combine them so that everyone has their eyes open). It can also be used to do general image editing, such as correcting lighting, color balance, croping, etc. Elements also comes with a cataloging tool, that can be used to organize your images. Lightroom is primarily a cataloging tool that also has general image editing functions - it is better than Elements for these functions, but lacks any of the detail editing capability. I don't know much about Nikon Capture, but I assume it is primarily for getting images from the camera (or memory card) on to the computer, with good general image editing tools.

Paint Shop Pro (and the Corel version) competes with PhotoShop Elements. It has some advantages, but overall for most people Elements is a better package and is pretty much the standard for low-end photo editors. Plus, it has much in common with the full version of PhotoShop, which is the standard with high-end photo editors.

Jeff Peterman
"What we got here, is  . . .  failure to communicate." 

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#6 of 147

     Posted 7/13/08 2:01 AM   
Fabrizio R. IT
 
From  Fabrizio R. IT  Posts 5  Last 7/19/08
To  Jeff Peterman      [Msg # 34277.6 Message 34277.6 replying to 34277.5 34277.5 ]    
Thanks to all for the answers.
I assume that I will have to focuse on Photopaint and Lightroom. Is it worthwile to have both or I can live with just one package?
I am not professional and I am not willing to make many modifications to photo. Just to correct some issues like lighting, exposition error, colors aberration etc. I put the question because I have today Photoshop elements 5.0 and I am wondering if I have to buy Lightroom also ar going to the professional version of Photoshop
Thank you in advance
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#7 of 147

     Posted 7/13/08 8:49 AM   
Jeff Peterman
 
From  Jeff Peterman  Posts 5373  Last Nov-21
To  Fabrizio R. IT      [Msg # 34277.7 Message 34277.7 replying to 34277.6 34277.6 ]    
Personnally, having tried to adjust to it twice, I don't like Lightroom. I have PhotoShop Elements 5 at work and PhotoShop CS3 at home (that's an older version of Elements and the current version of PhotoShop). I use Elements at work and for most things it is good enough. I also have Lightroom at home, but don't use it. Instead, I use something called Thumbs Plus from Cerious.com for my cataloging. I find Thumbs Plus MUCH easier to use than Lightroom and when combined with either version of PhotoShop it offers everything I need. Plus, Thumbs Plus is under $100, so you could get a good software combination for about $170.

Jeff Peterman
"What we got here, is  . . .  failure to communicate." 

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#8 of 147

     Posted 7/13/08 10:39 AM   
Tom Cattrall
 
From  Tom Cattrall  Posts 591  Last Jul-8
To  Fabrizio R. IT      [Msg # 34277.8 Message 34277.8 replying to 34277.6 34277.6 ]    
If you have Photoshop Elements 5 now, you can do pretty much everything you need with it.

Just use Elements for now and enjoy your new camera. Perhaps at some time in the future you might decide to get more involved in the software end of it. At that time you'll know more about what you want to do.


Tom
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#9 of 147

     Posted 7/13/08 1:37 PM   
Fabrizio R. IT
 
From  Fabrizio R. IT  Posts 5  Last 7/19/08
To  Tom Cattrall      [Msg # 34277.9 Message 34277.9 replying to 34277.8 34277.8 ]    
Yes, this is what I will do so far.
Taking into account that it cost 5 times more, what are the additional function of Photoshop compared to Photoshop elements?
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#10 of 147

     Posted 7/14/08 2:00 PM   
Mike Campos /  Sysop
 
From  Mike Campos / Sysop  Posts 2534  Last Nov-21
To  Fabrizio R. IT      [Msg # 34277.10 Message 34277.10 replying to 34277.1 34277.1 ]    
Fabrizio,

A lot of us have been in the same situation as you at one point in time. Listing the pros and cons of the different programs is difficult and time consuming, but I'll tell you what I use:

1.- Nikon Capture to correct mainly exposure problems and color correction, some members here do a lot more with it, I think Jim and and Ron get most of the work done in Capture NX. I think Nikon does an excellent job of handling NEFs.

2.- Photoshop CS2 for cropping, fixing imperfections, blurring backgrounds, selecting and removing objects, etc.

Photoshop Elements is a fine program, the only reason I went to Photoshop is that I had an opportunity a few years back to get a copy of 7.0 at a very low price through my company and I have continue to upgrade it. I have not gone to CS3 because it is hard to justify the cost considering all the other demons clamoring for my money <g>.

I don't use anything to catalog and tag files, I pretty much sort them out by subject & date, not that I would not like to have a very organized system, but time is limited for me.







Mike Campos

Mission Viejo, CA

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#11 of 147

     Posted 7/14/08 4:28 PM   
Ron Wrucke-VA Eastern Shore
 
From  Ron Wrucke-VA Eastern Shore  Posts 3303  Last 9/17/08
To  Mike Campos / Sysop      [Msg # 34277.11 Message 34277.11 replying to 34277.10 34277.10 ]    
.. just a quick note:  I do all my cropping in NX/NX2 (actually, most of the time it's my first step) since it is non-destructive (all NX edits are non-destructive for that matter).  I still bring many images into P'shop but nowhere near as often as I used to, especially since I upgraded to NX2.

Ron Wrucke
Eastern Shore Imaging
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#12 of 147

     Posted 7/15/08 1:34 AM   
Fabrizio R. IT
 
From  Fabrizio R. IT  Posts 5  Last 7/19/08
To  Ron Wrucke-VA Eastern Shore      [Msg # 34277.12 Message 34277.12 replying to 34277.11 34277.11 ]    
Thank you to all; your hints have been very useful to me.
So far I am concentrating on Photoshop Elements and , maybe, I will give a try to Capture NX.
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#13 of 147

     Posted 7/19/08 5:58 PM   
caljeanmid
 
From  caljeanmid  Posts 171  Last Nov-20
To  All      [Msg # 34277.13 Message 34277.13 replying to 34277.12 34277.12 ]    

So far I am concentrating on Photoshop Elements

Hey all, what I want to do is paint out backgrounds. When I load a picture into Windows Paint, I can erase backgrounds, but what it really does is paint them opaque white. I want them clear, transparent.

And I want to flood fill a range of background colors, not just one shade among thousands. Say, all the dark greens, for instance.

Will Photoshop Elements 6 do either of those?  (So far, Irfanview and Windows paint have been sufficient for my editing)

Cal, from West Michigan

Local music, dance, and outdoor events info at http://www.freewebs.com/dancealot

 

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#14 of 147

     Posted 7/19/08 6:36 PM   
Nancy Crays
 
From  Nancy Crays  Posts 1474  Last Jun-8
To  caljeanmid      [Msg # 34277.14 Message 34277.14 replying to 34277.13 34277.13 ]    
Fred knows how to do this.  He and I had a discussion on it about 6 to 8 months ago.  I know it was after I came back from China.  You could do an advanced search  on "blur background."

One of my books shows how to use filters (I think) and put the main image into a whole new background.  The examples were great, but it wasn't easy for me to do it.


Nancy C.
Seniors Community ~ Investing for Growth Forum ~ Dog Lovers Community ~ Cat Lovers Community
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#15 of 147

     Posted 7/19/08 7:40 PM   
Jon Woolf
 
From  Jon Woolf  Posts 731  Last Nov-20
To  caljeanmid      [Msg # 34277.15 Message 34277.15 replying to 34277.13 34277.13 ]    
Cal,

>> Will Photoshop Elements 6 do either of those?  <<

Yes, it will.  At least, I know it can do the first because I've done that with Photoshop Elements 5.  I'm not sure about the second because I've never needed to try it, but I don't see why you couldn't do it, and I can think of one or two ways that should work. 

Painting out backgrounds is simple in Photoshop Elements, but the exact process depends on what you want the end product to look like.  Do you want one layer to be removed so an image on a deeper layer can be allowed to show through, or do you want to wind up with an image to show on a webpage, in such a way that the page's background color shows through it? 

-- JSW
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#16 of 147

     Posted 7/20/08 12:18 AM   
caljeanmid
 
From  caljeanmid  Posts 171  Last Nov-20
To  Jon Woolf      [Msg # 34277.16 Message 34277.16 replying to 34277.15 34277.15 ]    

 Do you want one layer to be removed so an image on a deeper layer can be allowed to show through, or do you want to wind up with an image to show on a webpage, in such a way that the page's background color shows through it? 

I want to take an object, such as a bird or flower, and remove it from its background. IOW erase the area around the object. Not just paint the background white. Then I want to but a new background, say some text or trees, around the object.

In the past, with paint programs, the now-white area covers some of the text.

However, I used to be able, in Corel Photo House, I think, which I have lost., to specify a "color" that would be transparent ,

Cal, from West Michigan

Local music, dance, and outdoor events info at http://www.freewebs.com/dancealot

 


Edited 7/20/08   by  caljeanmid
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#17 of 147

     Posted 7/23/08 6:51 PM   
Fred O
 
From  Fred O  Posts 1595  Last Jul-8
To  Fabrizio R. IT      [Msg # 34277.17 Message 34277.17 replying to 34277.9 34277.9 ]    (Unread)
Fabrizio -
You have an excellent start with Photoshop Elements 5.
If you wish to do more complex image adjustments, look first at upgrading to the latest Photoshop Elements - currently #6.  The program is very capable for photoediting.

After you work with it for a while, you can ask more questions about specific issues - problems, things that can be done better elsewhere, etc.
The reason to use Photoshop Elements (PSE) is that it has the inexpensive best software for image adjustment.
It has good color management - you'll need that some day.  (Some Corel products, up through #9 at least, did not have good color management.)

Adobe Photoshop - full version - costs alot more than PSE.  About 6 -7 times more.
It has the abilty to work in diferent color spaces (CMYK, LAB) that professionals need if they are going to send their work to a printer. 
It has more complex methods of editing photos - and, if you are willing to spend a few years learning it, can probably do a better job on difficult images.  Maybe.

Photoshop is an expert level, complex professional tool.  If you want to use the simplest parts of it, you can do that, and gradually add the skills  to use the rest of it.
Most people do not find that to be worth the effort, because they get good results from PSE.

No one has mentioned Picture Window Pro version 4.
It is very capanble, cheap.and probaly more easy to learn than any Adobe Photoshop or PSE product.
It lacks a substantial web following to help with hints, tips, and problem solving.
Some features are better than the features in PSE or Photoshop, but that is not important until you are an advanced user.  I'd go with PSE.
Have fun.
  Show us some of you pictures sometime.
 Fred
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#18 of 147

     Posted 7/24/08 7:00 AM   
Jeff Peterman
 
From  Jeff Peterman  Posts 5373  Last Nov-21
To  caljeanmid      [Msg # 34277.18 Message 34277.18 replying to 34277.13 34277.13 ]    
Just want to make sure that there's not a misunderstanding here. If you view a photo in anything and make the background of that transparent, what will show throughis whatever color you have set for the background (i.e., a solid color) unless the photo is an image layerd on top of another - in the later case, the lower image will show through where you've made a section "transparent."

Jeff Peterman
"What we got here, is  . . .  failure to communicate." 

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#19 of 147

     Posted 7/24/08 8:30 PM   
caljeanmid
 
From  caljeanmid  Posts 171  Last Nov-20
To  Jeff Peterman      [Msg # 34277.19 Message 34277.19 replying to 34277.18 34277.18 ]    

Exactly right. For example, I could take a picture of someone's head and trim off all the excess, making it transparent. Then I could paste the head on the body of another person., presumably using CorelDraw 4.

So, how do I paint "the excess" transparent? When I use the erase function, it just paints the background as white.

FWIW I ordered Photoshop Elements 6.0 yesterday. I have been using Irfanview and Windoows Paint.

Cal, from West Michigan

Local music, dance, and outdoor events info at http://www.freewebs.com/dancealot

 

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#20 of 147

     Posted 7/24/08 9:17 PM   
Jeff Peterman
 
From  Jeff Peterman  Posts 5373  Last Nov-21
To  caljeanmid      [Msg # 34277.20 Message 34277.20 replying to 34277.19 34277.19 ]    
Just add the image with, for example, the "head" as a layer on top of the original image and now when you delete the unwanted area the layer below (the original image) will show through. The reason you saw white in the past was that your image was the bottom/single layer in which case deleting just shows the color you've chosen for the background.

Jeff Peterman
"What we got here, is  . . .  failure to communicate." 

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