Gunpowder, treason and plot

Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...

For some people, terrorism only became real on September 11, 2001 and for them that was the day that the world changed. Others have lived with it all their lives, through one of: the ANC, the Bader-Meinhoff gang, ETA, the IRA, The Khmer Rouge, the PLO, the Red Brigade, the UDA, and many more. Al-Qa'ida is a Johnny-come-lately in comparison.

But terrorism is scarcely new. It probably started with one family or tribe carrying out raids on another, trying to gain power or dominance over some resource by violence and intimidation.

One famous terrorist plot was planned for the year 1605 and it is celebrated on November 5 in England to this day. It is known as Guy Fawkes night or bonfire night. Because of its proximity to Halloween, it has taken on some of the customs of Halloween, but at its centre is the burning of an effigy representing the eponymous Guy Fawkes on a bonfire, and fireworks representing the explosion that he intended.

Guy Fawkes was a Roman Catholic, who was familiar with explosives thanks to his years as a soldier. He joined a group of fellow Catholics who planned to assassinate King James I (James VI of Scotland) because he was not sympathetic enough to Catholics. They also intended to kill most of the royal family, and the entire parliament. They rented a cellar under the House of Lords and hid approximately 2.5 tonnes of gunpowder there. They then waited for the formal opening of the 1605 session of Parliament, when many royals, aristocrats and the members of both houses of parliament would be gathered together.

One of the conspirators was concerned that fellow Roman Catholics would be killed, however, and wrote anonymously to warn one. The letter was passed on to the secretary of state. Guy Fawkes was discovered during the resultant search of the cellars on November 5. He was interrogated under torture and he and his fellow conspirators in the "gunpowder plot" were executed for treason - they were hung, drawn, and quartered.

If the plot had succeeded, it would have put any modern-day terrorist act in the shade. Not only would it have wiped out most of the royal family and parliament, but it would likely have triggered the great fire of London 61 years early. As it was, the main conspirators were executed and Roman Catholics as a whole were suppressed for a long time afterwards.

Terrorists are usually treated as criminals by whoever is in power at the time. Many, like Guy Fawkes and Timothy McVeigh, are tried and executed. If they also endanger the state, they are charged with treason as well as murder. It is not normal for retaliation to be taken against a third party, as in the case of Iraq being invaded after 9/11.

Even back in 1605, it took the permission of the king himself for Guy Fawkes to be tortured to obtain the names of his co-conspirators. How do you feel that suspected and convicted terrorists should be treated?

[Views expressed are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect those of CompuServe, Netscape, any government, agency, or news organization.]

Sue [sysop in NewsForum, World Issues, All Animals forums]

Thanks for an interesting story, Sue !

Regarding:

  << "Even back in 1605, it took the permission of the king himself for Guy Fawkes to be tortured to obtain the names of his co-conspirators." >>

Of course, these days, it's not unlikely that they'd continue torturing Guy Fawkes even after he provided the information, just for good measure.

As you know, in America we have an equivalent celebration, on the 4th of July each year, in which we commemorate our independence from the Crown by setting fire to buildings and burning ourselves with incendiary devices of all kinds.  Stop Press  I'm informed that the ceremonial torching of men and monuments is unintentional, and that they're merely accidents blamed on careless adults and children playing with fireworks.  At least, that's what I'm told. 

I'm glad to hear that the death and destruction is accidental and not part of the celebration <g>

Do you have many such accidental immolations in Britain on Guy Fawkes Day ?

Very best wishes,

       -  John

[Views expressed are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect those of CompuServe, Netscape, any government, agency, or news organization.]

Thanks, Sue, for your reply :)

  << "Yes, bonfire night, and the period leading up to it, are very busy times for the emergency services. :(  Accidents can happen even at the best-run fireworks displays, and with fireworks available to everyone (though the underaged are not supposed to be able to buy them), and I would not call many people's approach to fireworks professional. 11 people (7 were children) were hurt at an apparently-well-planned big event at Wicksteed Park, Kettering, Northants. One boy was seriously hurt. People were hurt elsewhere in the country, and a garage set on fire. Many frightened dogs end up straying. Thatched houses have been burnt to the ground in the past - sometimes by their owner's own fireworks - which gives an alternative meaning to the phrase "friendly fire". I've not heard of anyone dying this year, fortunately. Collateral damage comes in all shapes and forms. Is it worth it?" >>

So why, do you think, after all these years of fires and explosions and injuries and deaths do people still want to light explosives, even small ones, on the 4th of July and Guy Fawkes Day?

Very best wishes,

        --  John

[Views expressed are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect those of CompuServe, Netscape, any government, agency, or news organization.]

Sue, that is not all there is to that story. There were actually 3 factions at odds during those times.The Roman Catholics were angry that the king had replaced the pope as the head of the church. The church of England that was comfortable with the king being the head of the church and that bunch of malcontents later called purtians and pilgrams who felt the church needed neither a pope or a king. The one thing they all agreed on though was their hatered for jews and muslins.

 400 years later these same groups are still at odds and inflecting terror on each other or being terrorized by some other religious sect.

Do you suppose the underlying  root cause could be religion itself?

But I'm no historian. What do you think?$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I am not a historian either. I happen to know that little piece of information due to a google search I did the other day about another topic.

I was struck that after 400 years the players and the issues are still the same.  Guy Hawks has been replaced by the Jerry Falwells, Pat Robertsons and folks of their ilk.

I hope you aren't implying that they are planning to blow up Congress!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Probably not ours or yours but if I were some of the other countries I would sleep with one eye open.

"Pat Robertson has already said he'd like to see Foggy Bottom (location of CIA Headquarters in Virginia) nuked. And you've seen he has no qualms about calling for the assasination of a foreign leader. "

So why isn't he in jail for inciting violence?

Sue [sysop in NewsForum, World Issues, All Animals forums]

So why isn't he in jail for inciting violence?$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

He is a christian, a republican and the spokesperson for a hugh voting bloc that backs Bush. If he was brought up on charges the backlash for the faithful could sink many republican careers.