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BI Newbies

Sonic Corp: An SSG Tutorial

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#1 of 177

     Posted 3/16/05 12:34 PM   
Nancy Isaacs
 
From  Nancy Isaacs  Posts 7112  Last Feb-6
To  All      [Msg # 28632.1 ]    

Just a quick reminder that a new workshop will begin this coming Monday, March 21st, in the Newbie section of our Forum.  It will be presented by Hugh McManus, President of the NIA Advisory Board of Directors.  Hugh is a great presenter and this will really be a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a true birds eye view of the SSG process.  Here is a description of the workshop:

"Sonic both operates and franchises a chain of fast-food, drive-in restaurants. The company has under 3,000 outlets in the US. Most of the restaurants are located in the south and are reminiscent of the 1950's style drive-thru. Sonic, which has had a growth rate of over 15% annually for the past ten years or so, competes with McDonalds, Burger King and Wendy's. Sonic provides an interesting SSG study for those new to the NAIC methodology. This program will be a step-by-step guide through the five parts of the SSG."

Although the presentation is aimed at "newbies", I have no doubt that it will provide value for the more experienced among us as well.  So join us.  Your active participation is encouraged.  Remember our motto:  "there is no such thing as a dumb question"  translated as "the only dumb question is the one that isn't asked" <g>. 

 

Nancy Isaacs
NAIC Forum - Long term investing made simple
http://community.compuserve.com/naic


Edited 3/16/05   by  Nancy Isaacs
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#2 of 177

     Posted 3/19/05 3:33 AM   
Mike Willmoth
 
From  Mike Willmoth  Posts 106  Last 5/13/09
To  Nancy Isaacs      [Msg # 28632.2 Message 28632.2 replying to 28632.1 28632.1 ]    

We have Sonic drive-ins here in the Phoenix area.  Only one was simply a drive-thru (of course, it's the closest one) while the rest offer lots of parking spaces with the ability to order out your window.  Of the items we've tried there only the lime slushes (especially when it's 110F outside) really stand out :-)

<== Mike ==>

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#3 of 177

     Posted 3/19/05 1:21 PM   
jimcat11
 
From  jimcat11  Posts 41  Last 3/25/06
To  All      [Msg # 28632.3 Message 28632.3 replying to 28632.2 28632.2 ]    

all of the sonics closed in Indy and FortWayne.. I do not know if this was one franchisee owner or a national decision

Just FOOD for thought

Jim

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#4 of 177

     Posted 3/21/05 9:30 PM   
Hugh
 
From  Hugh  Posts 80  Last 6/15/07
To  All      [Msg # 28632.4 Message 28632.4 replying to 28632.1 28632.1 ]    

Introduction

For the next few days, we’re going to talk about a company called Sonic Corp, or Sonic.  Sonic is a publicly traded company, listed on the NASDAQ, trading under the ticker symbol SONC.  Sonic owns or franchises a chain of just under 2,900 drive-in restaurants.  These restaurants are located across the southern US, with a large concentration in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Tennessee.

Quick Check

Before spending time analyzing a company, it makes sense to screen it based on quality criteria: consistent sales, earnings, pre-tax profit margin and ROE.  Pricing issues such as PE ratio, etc. can follow later.  If you have Toolkit or Stock Analyst, you can quickly load Sonic into the program (using OPS or manually entering the data) and to a quick visual analysis to see if this company is well behaved.

Sales:  SONC appears to have consistent growing sales over ten years

Earnings:  though it had a glitch in 1996, SONC has had consistent and growing earnings for eight years.  Earnings track sales.

Pre-tax profit margin:  The pre-tax profit margin from Sonic has been a health 20% or so for eight years.  While this margin is fluctuates a little, it is reasonably consistent.

ROE:  The Company has had reasonably stable ROE behavior for the past five years.  Something appears to have happened from 1996 through 1999, which will be investigated later.

Pass or Fail?  The company passes an initial screen.  At first blush it appears to be a quality company and should be investigated further.

Let’s keep on going.

Competitive Landscape

Before starting on the analysis of a company such as Sonic, it’s good to take a look at the competitive landscape.  You can tear sheets (S&P) or Value Line reports from any decent broker or public library.  These resources are good for identifying where a company exists—where in a competitive environment.  There are various ways of describing this environment.  The SIC (a statistical classification standard) is used by the Federal government to describe various parts of the economy.  Companies with the same SIC code are regarded as being comparable in some way.  The SIC for Sonic is 5812.  One can more broadly look at the sector (09 – Services) and the industry (0942 – restaurants) and determine which other companies lie in this space.

When you screen a database of public companies having the same primary SIC code as Sonic, you come up with over 100 competitors.  The first challenge begins: what exactly is a competitor?  That’s a tougher question to answer than you might think.  The government has one way of looking at it; Wall Street may have another.  For me, the simplest way to think of it is from the perspective of the customer.  If a person walks into Sonic to spend money, what were his or her other choices before deciding to enter that restaurant?  That’s the big question. 

Generally speaking, Sonic is a ‘burger joint.’  It seems reasonable that people visit Sonic because they’re hungry.  They probably don’t decide between Sonic and Starbucks: some might, but most probably do not.  Is a company like Domino’s Pizza (also SIC 5812) really a fully-fledged competitor of Sonic.  Does the average consumer have the same decision making process when deciding between these two options?  Probably not.  In fact, as you think about it a little more, you can start to narrow down the list of 100 restaurants in to those that compete directly with Sonic (Checkers Drive-In Restaurants—CHKR) and those that do not (Meritage Hospitality Group—MHG).  Competitors vie for the same dollars, which implies that must access the same consumers.

Identifying competitors is important, because we’re not simply interested in buying a company; we’re interested in buying a good company.  No matter how good an SSG may look, if there is a competitor that looks better, we need to know about it.  In fact, right from the get-go, it’s important not to think of the SSG in isolation.

...[Message truncated]
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#5 of 177

     Posted 3/21/05 10:35 PM   
Elissa
 
From  Elissa  Posts 35  Last 12/21/06
To  Hugh      [Msg # 28632.5 Message 28632.5 replying to 28632.4 28632.4 ]    

Hugh,

Thank you for leading this workshop.

In the annual report, both the letter to shareholders and the management and discussion were very positive.

Sonic does seem like an interesting company to study.

Elissa

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#6 of 177

     Posted 3/21/05 11:57 PM   
Nancy Isaacs
 
From  Nancy Isaacs  Posts 7112  Last Feb-6
To  Hugh      [Msg # 28632.6 Message 28632.6 replying to 28632.4 28632.4 ]    

Hugh,

     Thanks so much for running this workshop for us.  I think we can all (beginners and advanced) use a good dose of "back to the basics".

     For some reason, I'm getting different numbers than you are.  Can you figure out why?

    >>The historical growth in sales is 17.1% annually for the past ten years.<<

     My SSG shows historical sales and earnings growth at 17.1% as well.  It's pretty unusual for sales and earnings growth to be so totally in sync, dontcha think?

     >>Using this figure for both sales and EPS growth rate for the next five, I project that sales will reach $1.2 billion in 2009 while EPS will be $2.39.<<

     My projected eps at 17.1% growth comes to 2.25 projecting from the year end and 2.36 projecting from the trailing four quarters.  I wonder why we don't get the same results since we're using the same data source.  My 2004 eps = 1.02 and trailing eps 1.07.  No biggie, of course, but just a curiousity.

     >>For this first pass, I used the average high and low PE ratios of about 24 and 13, respectively.<<

     Mine shows 23.7 (about 24) and 14.7.  Perhaps you're using the 10 year averages?  That must be it, i.e. 23.4 and 13.1.

    >>The high and low prices are projected to be $57.4 and $13.3, respectively. <<

55.20 and 13.4 (based on 2.36 high eps)

>>e upside/downside ratio is 1.0 to 1.0—this company is not in the buy zone.<<

I get 1.0 as well, so no point splitting hairs about the 1.36 vs 1.39.  I was just curious about how that could happen.

 

Nancy Isaacs
NAIC Forum - Long term investing made simple
http://community.compuserve.com/naic

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#7 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 1:19 AM   
Hugh
 
From  Hugh  Posts 80  Last 6/15/07
To  All      [Msg # 28632.7 Message 28632.7 replying to 28632.6 28632.6 ]    

Nancy,

For a quick look at Sonic, I glanced at page 1 of the SSG.  The sales and earnings seemed to grow in tandem--they look reasonably parallel.  The historical average annual sales growth was reported as 17.1%--the numbers need to be examined a little to check for consistency.  As a first past, I just selected 17.1% as the growth in both sales and earnings.  Actually, earnings have grown faster than 17.1% (as reported by Toolkit), but I just selected 17.1% to get a quick decision on this company.

I skimmed down the historial PE ratio numbers and found out that, after rounding, the high and low PE ratios were 24 and 13--those are the numbers I selected.

The bottom line is that, at the moment, Sonic isn't in the buy zone.  I plan to go into more detail with Sonic later.

Hugh

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#8 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 3:09 AM   
NancyC, Admin
 
From  NancyC, Admin  Posts 10143  Last 6/9/09
To  Hugh      [Msg # 28632.8 Message 28632.8 replying to 28632.4 28632.4 ]    
If you have Toolkit or Stock Analyst, you can quickly load Sonic into the program (using OPS or manually entering the data) and to a quick visual analysis to see if this company is well behaved.
I think users of NAIC Classic Plus should be able to do this too.

Nancy Crays
NAIC Forum - Long term investing made simple
Click on the Forum name to visit us

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#9 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 3:13 AM   
NancyC, Admin
 
From  NancyC, Admin  Posts 10143  Last 6/9/09
To  Nancy Isaacs      [Msg # 28632.9 Message 28632.9 replying to 28632.6 28632.6 ]    
My SSG shows historical sales and earnings growth at 17.1% as well.
Mine does not.  I have 17.1% for sales and 22.2% EPS growth using Stock Analyst and the least squares method.  I'm using OPS data.  Maybe it's because SA rounds the EPS to 2 decimal places and Investors Toolkit uses 3?

Nancy Crays
NAIC Forum - Long term investing made simple
Click on the Forum name to visit us


Edited 3/22/05   by  NancyC, Admin
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#10 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 8:53 AM   
Ev
 
From  Ev  Posts 2538  Last Feb-8
To  Hugh      [Msg # 28632.10 Message 28632.10 replying to 28632.7 28632.7 ]    

Thanks so much for doing the workshop, Hugh.  It is terrific. I will get my SSG together today. 

For those quietly following along - please don't hesitate to jump in - the questions, comments, discussion are what make the learning really special.

Best - Ev
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#11 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 11:02 AM   
wiz0015
 
From  wiz0015  Posts 86  Last Feb-8
To  Ev      [Msg # 28632.11 Message 28632.11 replying to 28632.10 28632.10 ]    (Unread)

My feeling is that as a company gets larger the growth rate will slow. Looking  at PERT quarterly and annually I decided to use 16% as to sales and earnings. I used a high PE of 27.7 and low PE of 17 which excludes the year 2000 high and low PE's.  High price of 59.00 (27.7 x 2.14) low price 18.

Mike-Florida   

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#12 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 12:01 PM   
Tom Marion
 
From  Tom Marion  Posts 36  Last 1/21/06
To  Hugh      [Msg # 28632.12 Message 28632.12 replying to 28632.4 28632.4 ]    
Hugh,
Coming back to Nancy I's second question - how did you get to 2.39 in 5 years at 17.1% starting with 1.02.  Like Nancy I get 2.25 or 2.36 if I start with the TTM of 1.07.

Tom
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#13 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 1:28 PM   
Hugh
 
From  Hugh  Posts 80  Last 6/15/07
To  All      [Msg # 28632.13 Message 28632.13 replying to 28632.12 28632.12 ]    

Tom/Nancy,

I took a look back at Toolkit.  The actual growth rates that I have (and will talk about later) are 17.5% for revenues and 18.6% for EPS.  They're about three months old now.  I entered 17.1% for revenues and EPS, but jotted down the five year projected levels for the original growth rates that I used--not the 17.1% rates.  The actual project values for revenues and EPS are $1.2 billion and $2.25, respectively. 

Thanks.

 

Hugh

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#14 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 4:04 PM   
Kishor
 
From  Kishor  Posts 5  Last 3/22/05
To  Hugh      [Msg # 28632.14 Message 28632.14 replying to 28632.13 28632.13 ]    

Hello  Hugh,

Thank you for doing SSG.  I am sure I will learn a lot.  Here is my finding, and its a HOLD.  Actually, I took all the defaults as I am happy with the swings in high and low PEs over the last five years.

Sales/EPS: 15/15 - a bit optimistic eventhough its a rail track ehaviour

High/Low PE: 23.7/14.7

High/Low Price: 48.6/15

which gives up side down ratio of ).8 and annual return of miser 7.7%

Am I correct in my assumption of PEs?  What other things shoud I look at to improve my choice?

Kishor

 

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#15 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 6:13 PM   
Hugh
 
From  Hugh  Posts 80  Last 6/15/07
To  Kishor      [Msg # 28632.15 Message 28632.15 replying to 28632.14 28632.14 ]    (Unread)

Kishor,

Thanks for the note.  I am going to get to that point (question on PE ratio) later today and tomorrow.  So, stay tuned!

Hugh

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#16 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 8:01 PM   
Helen Thompson
 
From  Helen Thompson  Posts 160  Last 8/22/07
To  NancyC, Admin      [Msg # 28632.16 Message 28632.16 replying to 28632.9 28632.9 ]    

I am using Toolkit 5 and I just imported OPS data for the Sonc SSG.  I also have 17.1 for hx sales growth and 22.2 for EPS growth.

Helen

 

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#17 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 8:06 PM   
Helen Thompson
 
From  Helen Thompson  Posts 160  Last 8/22/07
To  Tom Marion      [Msg # 28632.17 Message 28632.17 replying to 28632.12 28632.12 ]    

Tom, Nancy, et al

I get projected EPS of $2.40 if I start projection from quarterly data and $2.30 if I start the projection from annual data.  That is using 17.1% for both sales and EPS growth.   I don't understand the descrepancies.

Helen

 

 

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#18 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 8:12 PM   
Helen Thompson
 
From  Helen Thompson  Posts 160  Last 8/22/07
To  All      [Msg # 28632.18 Message 28632.18 replying to 28632.17 28632.17 ]    

I just posed incorrect numbers.  For a 17.1 EPS growth I got $2.36 if projected from quarterly data and $2.25 from annual data.

Hugh, will you be addressing things to considering with selecting the projection point.  This is an area I am always unsure of.

Helen

 

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#19 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 9:26 PM   
Nancy Isaacs
 
From  Nancy Isaacs  Posts 7112  Last Feb-6
To  Helen Thompson      [Msg # 28632.19 Message 28632.19 replying to 28632.17 28632.17 ]    

>>I get projected EPS of $2.40 if I start projection from quarterly data and $2.30 if I start the projection from annual data.  That is using 17.1% for both sales and EPS growth.   I don't understand the descrepancies.<<

Helen,

Are you using TK%?  Are you using OPS data?  Does your data show 1.07 for trailing eps?  Using a financial calculator I get 2.36 as future value when I enter 1.07 for present value, 5 for number and 17.1 for the growth rate on the TK financial calculator. 

Nancy Isaacs
NAIC Forum - Long term investing made simple
http://community.compuserve.com/naic

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#20 of 177

     Posted 3/22/05 9:29 PM   
Nancy Isaacs
 
From  Nancy Isaacs  Posts 7112  Last Feb-6
To  NancyC, Admin      [Msg # 28632.20 Message 28632.20 replying to 28632.9 28632.9 ]    

>> I have 17.1% for sales and 22.2% EPS growth using Stock Analyst and the least squares method.  <<

Nancy,

     I have the same historic growth rates.  I must have been looking at my projections by mistake.  Sorry about that.

Nancy Isaacs
NAIC Forum - Long term investing made simple
http://community.compuserve.com/naic

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BI Newbies

Sonic Corp: An SSG Tutorial

  
 
     

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