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Vista Home and Ultimate

How has your opinion of Vista changed ?

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Ro Allen [Wugnet]
by :   Ro Allen [Wugnet]
9/16/06

votes :   160
Latest :   Nov-14
Q: How has your opinion of Vista changed ?



#2 of 138

     Posted 9/16/06 10:54 AM   
Peter Creasey
 
From  Peter Creasey  Posts 416  Last 9:07 AM
To  Ro Allen [Wugnet]      [Msg # 193587.2 Message 193587.2 replying to 193587.1 193587.1 ]    
       Most of us can only go by what we have read.  Based on this, my opinion is that Vista is over-bloated and over-ambitious.

       I would prefer to stay with WinXP Pro which has been a very good performer on my PCs.


. . . . . . . . . . Pete/Houston
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#3 of 138

     Posted 9/16/06 12:58 PM   
Iain Noble
 
From  Iain Noble  Posts 235  Last 4/15/09
To  Peter Creasey      [Msg # 193587.3 Message 193587.3 replying to 193587.2 193587.2 ]    

"Based on this, my opinion is that Vista is over-bloated and over-ambitious."

I am sure we all welcome that detailed technical evaluation.

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#4 of 138

     Posted 9/16/06 4:13 PM   
GeneMc
 
From  GeneMc  Posts 1229  Last Nov-20
To  Iain Noble      [Msg # 193587.4 Message 193587.4 replying to 193587.3 193587.3 ]    
>> I am sure we all welcome that detailed technical evaluation. <<

No one here begins to be qualified to give that kind of evaluation.

Pete’s expressed opinion is perfectly apropos.

Your relentless sarcasm has for me long ago degenerated into tiresome background noise.

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#5 of 138

     Posted 9/16/06 5:10 PM   
Iain Noble
 
From  Iain Noble  Posts 235  Last 4/15/09
To  GeneMc      [Msg # 193587.5 Message 193587.5 replying to 193587.4 193587.4 ]    

"Your relentless sarcasm has for me long ago degenerated into tiresome background noise."

As has your endless berating of all and sundry. Perhaps it would be best if we ignored each other?

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#6 of 138

     Posted 9/16/06 7:43 PM   
Sandy G/WinSupport
 
From  Sandy G/WinSupport  Posts 4885  Last Nov-18
To  Iain Noble      [Msg # 193587.6 Message 193587.6 replying to 193587.5 193587.5 ]    

Announcement for the benefit of Iain and Gene. I never swing my hammer without fair warning. Therefore

In the future any messages with ad hominem attacks will be deleted out of hand and without apology or explanation. The only appeal is to the forum wizop, who always has the right to fire me.

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#7 of 138

     Posted 9/16/06 7:56 PM   
Iain Noble
 
From  Iain Noble  Posts 235  Last 4/15/09
To  Sandy G/WinSupport      [Msg # 193587.7 Message 193587.7 replying to 193587.6 193587.6 ]    
Fair enough.
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#8 of 138

     Posted 9/17/06 12:56 AM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 3934  Last 2:42 AM
To  Ro Allen [Wugnet]      [Msg # 193587.8 Message 193587.8 replying to 193587.1 193587.1 ]    
I've been following Vista in the online computer press and so far, I don't see anything that would motivate me to move from XP to Vista. Many of the touted features are either things I don't care about (Aero), have already through third-party software, or actively don't want. I intend to hold off for quite a long time.
--Judy M.
------------------------------------------------
Registered Linux User #397786
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Message 193587.9 was deleted

#10 of 138

     Posted 9/17/06 1:20 PM   
Sandy G/WinSupport
 
From  Sandy G/WinSupport  Posts 4885  Last Nov-18
To  Iain Noble      [Msg # 193587.10 Message 193587.10 replying to 193587.7 193587.7 ]    

And furthermore....

That edict applies to everyone, not just the named victims. So for anyone who happens to be missing a message in this thread....

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#11 of 138

     Posted 9/17/06 1:28 PM   
GeneMc
 
From  GeneMc  Posts 1229  Last Nov-20
To  Peter Creasey      [Msg # 193587.11 Message 193587.11 replying to 193587.9 193587.9 ]    
Actually Sandy is right. I was a unnecessarily harsh on this occasion. I knew when typing that I was going too far, but let it go anyway.

Oh well, we old goats can be testy at times. Present company excepted of course. <g>

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#12 of 138

     Posted 9/17/06 1:55 PM   
GeneMc
 
From  GeneMc  Posts 1229  Last Nov-20
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 193587.12 Message 193587.12 replying to 193587.8 193587.8 ]    
Unlike some others here, I haven't installed the betas, so can’t comment from experience. But perhaps the thing might be worth using if only for the claimed improvements in security. If I understand it correctly, access to the kernel at what might be called root level is no longer possible with Vista. That alone should offer considerable protection insofar as limiting possible damage from malware. I believe not even AV programs will be allowed to access the internal workings. The AV people have complained at some length about that since historically they have been allowed access. It means a complete rewriting of their programs if they are to work with Vista.

I think also that the IE version that will be a part of Vista also offers more security measures than the stand-alone downloaded version. That is something to think about too.

It may be that those things are not of much concern to you because you use Linux most of the time. I use my Intel Mac most of the time too, but my PCs can run Vista I believe and installing it on one of them at least might be a good idea just for the added security when I do use that box.

The candy stuff doesn’t interest me either, but the added security stuff does. I must admit that although I have never had any kind of malware on any of my computers over the years, I am getting not a little tired of all the security concerns that still bother me as much as they bother others. If Vista will actually lessen that concern, then I am all for using it.

Besides, whenever we buy new boxes we will get stuck with it anyway.

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#13 of 138

     Posted 9/17/06 5:02 PM   
Peter Creasey
 
From  Peter Creasey  Posts 416  Last 9:07 AM
To  GeneMc      [Msg # 193587.13 Message 193587.13 replying to 193587.11 193587.11 ]    
>>   Actually Sandy is right.   <<

Gene,  

       I obviously wasn't disagreeing with Sandy...only letting her know the context of notes like yours that have often been written to Iain.

      Sandy did the right thing leaving all the notes up.


. . . . . . . . . . Pete/Houston
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#14 of 138

     Posted 9/17/06 9:22 PM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 3934  Last 2:42 AM
To  GeneMc      [Msg # 193587.14 Message 193587.14 replying to 193587.12 193587.12 ]    

We'll have to wait and see whether Vista security is much improved over XP's. Don't forget, we were promised major security improvements with XP and when that didn't pan out, SP 2 was supposed to fix things. Now we're told Vista will keep us safe.

Limiting user rights can be disabled in Vista, and if it's too onerous for most users to have to give permission for too many things, people will simply disable the feature and we'll be in the same state we're in now.

Like you, I've never been infected with malware, but unlike you, I'm not that worried about getting infected. Not worried enough to spend a fair chunk of change on a new operating system, anyway. I rarely use Internet Explorer, so it wouldn't bother me if the version that can be downloaded for XP is not as secure as the version in Vista.

>> Besides, whenever we buy new boxes we will get stuck with it anyway. >>

Yes, and that's when I'll get it.
--Judy M.

------------------------------------------------
Registered Linux User #397786
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#15 of 138

     Posted 9/17/06 9:49 PM   
GeneMc
 
From  GeneMc  Posts 1229  Last Nov-20
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 193587.15 Message 193587.15 replying to 193587.14 193587.14 ]    
>> Don't forget, we were promised major security improvements with XP and when that didn't pan out, SP 2 was supposed to fix things. Now we're told Vista will keep us safe. <<

Yes, but . . .

I don’t know the tech details, but my impression is that much of the kernel has been rewritten for Vista. Again, there is that business of no longer allowing any access to the kernel by anyone or anything.

I don’t know how effective that will actually be, but suspect it might indeed be a significant security improvement. It is a major change from what we got with XP SP2, which apparently didn’t do much more than plug known or guessed at potential security vulnerabilities - the kind of thing that patches have been doing. But we will see.

Obviously patches are after-the-fact solutions. I think Vista may do better than that.

I didn’t intend to give the impression that I worry a lot about security, I don’t,  but certainly I am a bit tired of having to install seemingly endless numbers of patches. If Vista does nothing more than cut down on the number, I will be grateful.

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#16 of 138

     Posted 9/18/06 5:43 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12680  Last 7:18 PM
To  Ro Allen [Wugnet]      [Msg # 193587.16 Message 193587.16 replying to 193587.1 193587.1 ]    

Yes, my opinion has changed, for the worse...

I have looked to both the Beta and RC1 and I am underwhelmed.  I see a lot of visual clutter, many things got moved around and things that used to be simple are no longer that way...

 

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#17 of 138

     Posted 9/18/06 5:46 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12680  Last 7:18 PM
To  Sandy G/WinSupport      [Msg # 193587.17 Message 193587.17 replying to 193587.6 193587.6 ]    

Please swing that hammer HARD.  Enough of this foolishness.  This is a technical discusion forun, not a place for making snide comments about other's comments...

Perhaps it's time we dusted off the "Bozo flag" and see how that works?

Fire you?  No way! 

 

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#18 of 138

     Posted 9/18/06 5:53 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12680  Last 7:18 PM
To  GeneMc      [Msg # 193587.18 Message 193587.18 replying to 193587.12 193587.12 ]    

>>If I understand it correctly, access to the kernel at what might be called root level is no longer possible with Vista

As someone has demonstrated, root level access is very alive and well, in spite of MS's obfusactions...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vista+rootkit

Vista is not as "more secure" as has been touted.  INstead, the user is pestered with questions about "do you really want to do this".  Honestly, it makes a firewall's outbound monitoring questions seem tame by comparison.  The average user is NOT going to really know what they are clicking "Yes/OK" to and that opens the door for malware to walk right through...

The "security" is in the asking the user questions, not in the user being able to get things done without being in Administrator mode.  MS themselves stated we users need to "get used to this" as they HAD to do things this way (MS's own words here, I'm not pontificating"...

>>Besides, whenever we buy new boxes we will get stuck with it anyway.

Ain't that the truth!

 

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#19 of 138

     Posted 9/18/06 6:07 PM   
Sandy G/WinSupport
 
From  Sandy G/WinSupport  Posts 4885  Last Nov-18
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 193587.19 Message 193587.19 replying to 193587.17 193587.17 ]    
Sshhhhh.... Everyone else is still looking up "ad hominem." <g>
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#20 of 138

     Posted 9/18/06 9:08 PM   
GeneMc
 
From  GeneMc  Posts 1229  Last Nov-20
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 193587.20 Message 193587.20 replying to 193587.18 193587.18 ]    
I am not talking about rootkits. They are capable only of giving the hacker access to the administrator level. That is not what Microsoft has in mind.

Rather, in Vista Microsoft has blocked access to the kernel entirely, to the point where even AV programs will no longer have access to it as they always have had in the past. The point being that if the AV had access, then so could hackers, theoretically anyway.

At this point, I have no idea whether that particular kind of blocking will prevent hackers accessing the kernel. That remains to be seen.

As for the persistent warnings and so on, I believe Microsoft has already addressed the many concerns testers have already expressed about that. How far it has gone with that I don’t know. We won’t know until we get our hands on the finished version. Nothing seen in Vista to date is written in stone.

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Vista Home and Ultimate

How has your opinion of Vista changed ?

  
 
     

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