Family and neighbors have told ABC News that Hasan was a pious Muslim and solitary man, but was outspoken about his views against the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
To some, an Internet message posted this spring under Hasan's name that argues suicide bombers are not committing murder but rather "to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers" is evidence enough that the shooting at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism.
As of Friday morning, the Associated Press reports that U.S. officials have not ruled out the possibility that Hasan was planning his shooting spree or collaborating with a radical group or organization.
But if he was indeed acting alone, psychiatrist Dr. Steven Dinwiddie said among solo mass murderers, mental illness usually attracts and twists religious beliefs -- not the other way around.
*teri* ~Casual Chat Forum~Blues what blues..hey i forgot 'emThe sun and the sand and a drink in my hand with no bottom ~Kenny Chesney~
think the danger is in identifying him as a "Muslim terrorist" without evidence he was involved in any type of conspiracy with others.>>
But would that really matter? Let's say he is not mentally ill, and he did act alone with the thoughts and beliefs that the extreme muslims have. Can we not call one person a terrorist?
And yes, I would call that fundamentalist and McVeigh terrorists. The Virginia Tech killer, if I'm remembering correctly, had a history of diagnosed mental illness.
>>But would that really matter? Let's say he is not mentally ill, and he did act alone with the thoughts and beliefs that the extreme muslims have. Can we not call one person a terrorist? <<
Well, we can call anyone anything we want. The question is what we accomplish by doing so. It isn't as if we have no other examples of mass murderers. We have a plethora of them, from Columbine to Va. Tech to an Amish school in Pa. to an army post, to a Texas college tower. Are they all "terrorists", or just some of them?
Is he mentally ill? Who knows? Who defines what mental illness is? They found a house in Ohio with a dozen or so dead bodies in it. Is the owner "mentally ill"? Was the guy who kidnapped and raped an 11 year old girl and held her captive for 18 years mentally ill? or just a really bad person? Are the priests who molested children in the choir mentally ill?
Individuals are capable of great evil. In most cases, they convince themselves that what they are doing is justified in some way, even if that justification is weak and irrational. (Somebody called me a camel jockey, so i'm going to kill as many people as i can, even though none of them ever said anything disparaging about me). Could that be considered delusional?
So....if i'm a postal worker and i was fired from my job, maybe i go in and shoot up a post office. Or if i'm a high school kid and my fellow students don't respect me, maybe i'll shoot a bunch of them and get a lot of attention, even if i die in the process. Or if i'm convinced the federal govt is evil and unamerican, maybe i bomb a major federal building. Or if i'm a muslim, and i think someone is making fun of me, maybe i shoot a bunch of people, and i model the shootings after something i saw on tV. i'm not sure i see a lot of difference in those scenarios. All seem to contain an element of paranoia/sociopathy.
The danger of calling one of them "Muslim terrorism" is the implication that it is part of an organized plan of terrorism, and SO FAR i haven't seen evidence of that in this case. So far, the evidence is scant and far-fetched. That may change as more is learned.
And, btw, we still have free speech in this country. People are still allowed to disagree with a war, or point out inconsistent attitudes toward "personal heroics" without being considered terrorists.
>>The Virginia Tech killer, if I'm remembering correctly, had a history of diagnosed mental illness. <<
There are more people with undiagnosed mental illness than there are with diagnosed mental illness.
Marty
They say that his salary plus benefits put him in the 6 figure annual income bracket. Yet he lived a spartan life, drove an ancient car, etc. I'm waiting for some hot shot journalist to follow the money.
He is a mass murderer, to say the least.
The question is what we accomplish by doing so>>
I think the difference in this case is the fact that we just happen to be at war with those who hate America and feel there is honor in killing us all. I do understand the danger of labeling him a muslin terrorist if he indeed is not. However, I think there is also danger in not admitting it if it proves to be true that he was/is involved with extremists.
I've only listened to sipits of the news reports, but I'm hearing it mentioned that he did have some past history that would seem to indicate he was at the very least, worth watching. And maybe our govt was watching him, but apparently not close enough.
People are still allowed to disagree with a war, or point out inconsistent attitudes toward "personal heroics" without being considered terrorists.>>
Well, he crossed that line didn't he? Were there warning signs? Probably. Are we so worried about offending that we didn't pay close enough attention to them? I think so. The price we pay is just too high. I agree that it's something that needs to be handled very very carefully, but it needs to be handled none the less.
They say that his salary plus benefits put him in the 6 figure annual income bracket. Yet he lived a spartan life, drove an ancient car, etc. I'm waiting for some hot shot journalist to follow the money. >>
I'm sure his entire life will be torn apart and investigated. This morning, I even heard a report of how he mourned for 2 months over the death of a pet bird. (like I care lol)
He is a mass murderer, to say the least>>
Absolutely
The army is in a bit of a bind here. one one hand, they don't want to harbor agents for foreign interests; otoh, they really need arabic speaking and muslim understanding officers and enlistees.
The army is in a bit of a bind here. one one hand, they don't want to harbor agents for foreign interests; otoh, they really need arabic speaking and muslim understanding officers and enlistees.>>
It's going to be tough for them, answering all the questions and trying to make all sides happy. And I'm sure that there will be info that we as the general public won't be privy too. It's horrible to think of our soldiers put in that postion.
Do you think the Army is a bit accountable? There are reports of his actions during classes, during his service and when he requested not to go to Iraq, his request was denied. Could it be the Army was trying to be "politically correct" not make waves with a Muslim officer? There have been legitimate reports but the Army failed to take action and do their job to remove him from the United States Army. We the average citizen will probably never know the complete outcome of this investigation.
~Maureen~
Casual Chat Forum
Do you think the Army is a bit accountable? There are reports of his actions during classes, during his service and when he requested not to go to Iraq, his request was denied. Could it be the Army was trying to be "politically correct" not make waves with a Muslim officer? There have been legitimate reports but the Army failed to take action and do their job to remove him from the United States Army. We the average citizen will probably never know the complete outcome of this investigation
I am not sure it reallly matters as I think it is both. We have a nut that first discredits the uniform and that is the fault of the military. The military is so political that people are afraid to speak up. In fact, expressing certain political views is prohibited by law. It is political because the President who is Cmdr is elected. Sec of Defense must be approved by the Senate and all Officer promotions are approved by the Senate. All officer efficiency reports are required to state how the individual supports EEO and Affirm Actions.
I'm sure his co-workers and bosses knew he was a nut job. Ofcourse, I don't know all the information, but I've seen way too many times it is easier to transfer the problem than to deal with it. Why he was transferred from Walter Reed to Ft Hood, who knows. My guess it was too close to Washington D.C.
As far as a six-figure benefit package, that seems to be fuzzy math to me. A Major with about 15 years of service makes $7,000 plus housing plus food allowance. If you add medical and retirment you might get to $15,000 a year.
One thing I might add, he can be tried in both Federal Court and Military Court. He broke two different laws and it is not considered double jeopardy. If he gets the death penalty, it is automatically sent forward for further review.
Bob
I am not sure it reallly matters as I think it is both.>>
I will disagree on this one, if the millitary and been reported (Marty not Fox news) the millitary was aware and rather than deal with the situation, sweeped it under the rug. It has cost the millitary 13 dead soldiers and many injured. This politically correct crap has got to stop. <g>
Why he was transferred from Walter Reed to Ft Hood, who knows. My guess it was too close to Washington D.C.
Very good question, also why would the millitary insist on sending him to Iraq when he requested and I would guess his valid reasons for not going? That in itself is pure stupidity.
As far as a six-figure benefit package, that seems to be fuzzy math to me. A Major with about 15 years of service makes $7,000 plus housing plus food allowance. If you add medical and retirment you might get to $15,000 a year>>>
Not exactly sure what you are referring to on the above, I did not watch news yesterday, but did hear something about his retirement but did not get the entire story. Is it being reported that he was to get a six figure retirement? <LOL>THAT is ridiculous!
If he gets the death penalty, it is automatically sent forward for further review. >
Yeah, just like all the criminals on death row here in California, they will die on death row.
As an afterthought, I do not want to appear to disrespect the millitary. THAT is not the case, I do respect the men and women who go to work everyday to ensure our safety. However like any corporation or business there are hot heads in the upper ranks that think they are above everyone else and have extremely stupid opinions. Not ALL, but someone or someones <is that a word> dropped the ball big time in this guy!
Why he was transferred from Walter Reed to Ft Hood, who knows.My guess it was too close to Washington D.C.>>
Here's what they are saying today,
The concerns about Hasan's performance and religious views were shared with other military officials considering his assignment after he finished his medical training, and the consensus was to send the 39-year-old psychiatrist to Fort Hood, the official said.
Fort Hood, one of the country's largest military installations, was considered the best assignment for Hasan because other doctors could handle the workload if he continued to perform poorly and his superiors could document any continued behavior problems, the official said.
Some in the group questioned Hasan's sympathies as an Army psychiatrist, whether he would be more aligned with Muslims fighting U.S. troops. And there was some concern about whether he should continue to serve in the military, the official said.
So it sounds like they were fully expecting to have further issues with this guy.
Shooting suspect's superiors questioned behaviorhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_fort_hood_shooting
I will disagree on this one, if the millitary and been reported (Marty not Fox news) the millitary was aware and rather than deal with the situation, sweeped it under the rug. It has cost the millitary 13 dead soldiers and many injured. This politically correct crap has got to stop. <g> I meant we have 13 dead, the why really didn't matter. So I agree with you totally.
Very good question, also why would the millitary insist on sending him to Iraq when he requested and I would guess his valid reasons for not going? That in itself is pure stupidity. He raised his right hand and volunteered to fight all enemies foreign and domestic. The military is not a democracy although it defends one.
Not exactly sure what you are referring to on the above, I did not watch news yesterday, but did hear something about his retirement but did not get the entire story. Is it being reported that he was to get a six figure retirement? <LOL>THAT is ridiculous! I was responding to a previous post on the subject.
As an afterthought, I do not want to appear to disrespect the millitary. THAT is not the case, I do respect the men and women who go to work everyday to ensure our safety. However like any corporation or business there are hot heads in the upper ranks that think they are above everyone else and have extremely stupid opinions. Not ALL, but someone or someones <is that a word> dropped the ball big time in this guy!Each time someone was moved, a commander certifies he/she is ready to go. As a commander, if they weren't I cleaned my own dirty laundry. Seems not to have happened in this case.
I read the post. In my opinion, that is all crap! The Army dropped the ball and someone's head needs to roll for it. Let's start with the immediate supervisor and work our way up. After 33 years I learned a little something on how the system works.
>>Very good question, also why would the millitary insist on sending him to Iraq when he requested and I would guess his valid reasons for not going? That in itself is pure stupidity. He raised his right hand and volunteered to fight all enemies foreign and domestic. The military is not a democracy although it defends one.<<
This is a difficult topic for the military. The man wasn't drafted; he volunteered. As you say, "to fight all enemies, foreign and domestic". We have a history of allowing people to refuse the draft based on "conscientious objection", but that is to ALL wars, not selective ones. The president and congress decide where we send troops; soldiers follow orders. They don;t pick and choose the wars they want to fight, or the theaters they are willing to participate in.
Especially in this case, he had received a very valuable education free. To allow him to leave the army would mean he received a free education and didn't have to pay it back.
In WWII, the US eventually sent Japanese Americans to fight in Europe,. but not in the Pacific theater. But that was for an entire group, determined by the command structure, not individual dispensations.
We have hundreds of thousands of men and women who have bravely served in two very difficult wars, putting themselves in danger, but acknowledging their responsibility as members of the armed forces. If you allow one man to opt out because he disagrees with the war, how many others might ask for the same?
The Army dropped the ball and someone's head needs to roll for it. Let's start with the immediate supervisor and work our way up.>>
What has happened in other similar situations? I imagine there have been other soldiers that commanders knew shouldn't be put in the position of defending our country. Are they given a discharge and sent on their way?
Do you think that didn't happen with this guy because he is Muslim and they were afraid of backlash?
The Army dropped the ball and someone's head needs to roll for it. Let's start with the immediate supervisor and work our way up. After 33 years I learned a little something on how the system works.>>
I think we agree on all aspects of this mess so far. What branch did you serve with Bob?
I should start small and progress with severity. A simple, cut it out talk. Then a written reprimand, then a Article 15 (fine), then a Court Martial. Yes I think being a Muslim caused a blind eye to be turned. Walter Reed just with thru a lot of bad news with care and I don't think they wanted any more bad publicity. (Conjecture).
Bad news never gets better with age, nor does a rotten egg improve. Depending on the individual's response, mental health can be given, ofcourse this was his profession. I think a senior official at Walter Reed will be quietly relieved of duty.
I started my military career by avoiding the draft and enlisting in the Army. The Army sent me to VietNam so I said enough of this. When my hitch was over, I went to register for the draft (as was required by law). The Air Force offered me a deal I couldn't refuse. So I enlisted. After several years, I found out the pay really sucked. So I decided to go to college. I applied for a commission and was lucky as only 1 in 11 were being accepted.
The USAF was good to me but I really wanted to retire. It seemed like just about the time I was going to retire, they'd promote me. Then they sent me to the Gulf War! I said enough is enough and finally retired a few years later.
