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Domestic Issues/Treasury

What Type of Goverment do you want to...

Print Discussion

by :   Ted C Hall (SysOp)
1/30/09

votes :   13
Latest :   2/5/09

The poll has closed

What Type of Goverment do you want to see?

A Caring System with Cradel to Grave assistance


0 votes (0%)

Consensus in all things


0 votes (0%)

Elected officials who represent what the voters want


4 votes (31%)

Elected Officials who "do what's best" for the country


7 votes (54%)

Anarchy in which each citizen does their own thing


1 vote (8%)

Libertarian ideals where responsibility of the individual is foremost


0 votes (0%)

Other (explain please)


1 vote (8%)

#2 of 23 Posted 1/30/09 1:06 PM

From Ted C Hall (SysOp) Posts 5644 Last 4/22/09
To All [Msg # 42743.2 42743.1 ]

FWIW, I live in a wide spot on the highway... one signal light...

To "govern" this wide spot we have a School Board, RFD Fire Board, a Park Board and very little else...

Among the community facilities we have a K-12 school that has won recognition for outstanding programs and student scores...

We have a nice little Fire Department that responds to fires in two counties with some very nice, and very modern equipment (just got digital communication gear ordered this month...)

Our park is a little strange in origin, the swings and playground area was designed and built by local folks using materials donated for the purpose... on land that belongs to the School District...

The Tennis courts aren't all that much, but there are FIVE Baseball fields from a t-ball (one) through two 60-foot scale youth fields, a 90-foot team for the older players and a MLB standard field for the local farm team that calls Florence home... as well as three batting cages...

Last year we had 100 kids in the 9 & 10 year old Cal Ripkin "Minor" league, and a similar number of 11 & 12 year olds in the "Majors" Not counting the T-Ball, Rookie, Bucs and semi-pros in training that's a lot of baseball players...

"Government" here is pretty much a process of consensus and cooperation... with a little yelling from time to time...<g>

The community supports the school and parks with a levy on property taxes that WE voted for... as well as work crews to do improvements in facilities, maintain the grounds and add new gear Scouts doing Service Projects are another area in which the community assets grow...

Anyone who tries to become a "Politician" here seems to lose their office pretty quickly... and discussion of changing from an unincorporated area to a "town" or "city" are usually overwhelmed by public opinion to the contrary... One such attempt resulted in a school board vacency just a few months ago...

Between Churches, School programs, Scouts, and individuals... the few "poor" families in the community get a farily decent Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc... and most of their other needs taken care of as well...

We probably pack the County Comissioner's Board meetings more than any of the towns in the valley... mostly to keep their hands OFF our property...

Much as I like the situation, I suppose the questions I'm asking are;

What's wrong with this picture?

What's different about where you live?

What would you change there/here?

Ted C Hall
Republican/History/Weather/Crime/Debate This!
"It isn't that Liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes” -- Mark Twain
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -- Mark Twain

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#3 of 23 Posted 1/30/09 3:31 PM

From DickWeltz Posts 547 Last Nov-21
To Ted C Hall (SysOp) [Msg # 42743.3 42743.1 ]

A combination of officials who do what the people want -- as they are elected to do -- and generally libertarian principles, i.e. a fairly strict adherence to a rather literal interpretaion of the constitution, so that the power to "do what the people want" is also defined and limited.

The government needs to provide services, e.g. police, fire, defense, that are not as well handled privately; and it needs to act as a referee to prevent abuses such as we have seen in the Madoff case.

Definitely no "cradels" wanted, not even cradles.

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#4 of 23 Posted 1/31/09 8:22 AM

From Greg Stephens (Administrator) Posts 1607 Last Jul-7
To Ted C Hall (SysOp) [Msg # 42743.4 42743.2 ]

I tend to lean towards the who do what the people want, that is the basis of the representative form of government. What kills me are the ones who say they are going to do whatever they want, don't matter what the people of their district tell them.

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#5 of 23 Posted 1/31/09 8:55 AM

From Ted C Hall (SysOp) Posts 5644 Last 4/22/09
To Greg Stephens (Administrator) [Msg # 42743.5 42743.4 ]

>>I tend to lean towards the who do what the people want<<

That was the greatest fear of the founders in replacing a monarchy with a democratic republic...

They KNEW that once the voters were able to put in representatives that pandered to gain votes, instead of making altruistic decisions that were best for the country as a whole, we'd be in trouble...

Today's society, with all of it's amazing Liberal policies, the "Political Correctness" the don't offend anyone treatment of children in the schools, "zero tolerance" policies in lieu of assessing blame, absurdly increased "protection" for "the accused" in criminal matters... all of the above and much, much more... stem from buying votes and selling "representation" of the individual over the higher calling of preserving the Constitution and The Nation...

If you eliminate any understanding of what the founder's intent was in creating our form of government from the education citizens receive they'll never know that they're best served by electing uncorrupted and dedicated public servants instead of salesmen... That they should be voting for stability instead of "Bread and Circuses"

The founders attempted to tie the hands of all three branches of government so that it couldn't get too bad, couldn't sell the whole country at one time...

Over the centuries incremental changes have brought us to a place where we're going to have to either reclaim our original form of government or see it change to something completely opposite of it's intended design...

Ted C Hall
Republican/History/Weather/Crime/Debate This!
"It isn't that Liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes” -- Mark Twain
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -- Mark Twain

Options

#6 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 10:18 AM

From Greg Stephens (Administrator) Posts 1607 Last Jul-7
To Ted C Hall (SysOp) [Msg # 42743.6 42743.5 ]

The founders intent IMO was to create a system where it was an honer to serve and do what your constituents wanted for a few years and then return home. What it has turned into however is just the opposite where you have career politicians who do what the lobbyists tell them is needed by their people. IMO if term limits were put into place you would get a whole lot different voting record out of a lot of people.

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#7 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 1:47 PM

From Mase Posts 570 Last Nov-21
To Greg Stephens (Administrator) [Msg # 42743.7 42743.6 ]

IMO if term limits were put into place you would get a whole lot different voting record out of a lot of people. >>

We already have term limits. Every two, four, and six years. It is called an Election.

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#8 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 2:09 PM

From Ted C Hall (SysOp) Posts 5644 Last 4/22/09
To Greg Stephens (Administrator) [Msg # 42743.8 42743.6 ]

>>IMO if term limits were put into place you would get a whole lot different voting record out of a lot of people.<<

We have term limits...

But we also have people who'd rather send them back when their term is up than do their "due diligence" as a voter and find someone better to put in their place...<G>

Ted C Hall
Republican/History/Weather/Crime/Debate This!
"It isn't that Liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes” -- Mark Twain
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -- Mark Twain

Options

#9 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 2:25 PM

From Carl Feick (SYSOP) Posts 8879 Last Nov-21
To Ted C Hall (SysOp) [Msg # 42743.9 42743.8 ]

But we also have people who'd rather send them back when their term is up than do their "due diligence" as a voter and find someone better to put in their place.

Actually I think the RNC is missing the boat. Gingrich nationalized the off year election with the "Contract with America" which won congress from the DNC for the first time in over 40 years. If the RNC were to do that again we would IMO get control of both houses in 2010.

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#10 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 2:33 PM

From Mase Posts 570 Last Nov-21
To Ted C Hall (SysOp) [Msg # 42743.10 42743.8 ]

But we also have people who'd rather send them back when their term is up than do their "due diligence" as a voter and find someone better to put in their place...<G>

Ain't that the truth.

I have to confess. when it comes to voting I do my research. BUT, I then get in the voting booth and see unkown names for school board, judges, etc. I have no idea who most of these people are and unless there has been a publicized issue, I make a habit out of voting the incumbent OUT. Change you can believe in <VBG>

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#11 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 2:45 PM

From Greg Stephens (Administrator) Posts 1607 Last Jul-7
To Ted C Hall (SysOp) [Msg # 42743.11 42743.8 ]

This is to Mase and Ted <G>

True we have elections BUT the way that the money works you just about have to die not to get reelected (and in some cases even that does not keep you from being elected. Look at the election of Carnahan in 2000.

The way things are now the big money is thrown at the incumbent and with many of our uniformed voters whoever has the media spots and the MSM in their pocket wins.

Options

#12 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 4:39 PM

From Ted C Hall (SysOp) Posts 5644 Last 4/22/09
To Carl Feick (SYSOP) [Msg # 42743.12 42743.9 ]

>>If the RNC were to do that again we would IMO get control of both houses in 2010.<<

They could mostly use the same contract... it's still full of things that need doing<g>

OTOH, a more aggressive and contemporary list of a half dozen items could be devastating to the DNC if they were just a bit vague and came out well in sound bite...

Getting the RNC base fired up wouldn't take much... they're looking for something right now... Anyone willing to get up and lead could make it happen.

Ted C Hall
Republican/History/Weather/Crime/Debate This!
"It isn't that Liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes” -- Mark Twain
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -- Mark Twain

Options

#13 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 4:46 PM

From Ted C Hall (SysOp) Posts 5644 Last 4/22/09
To Greg Stephens (Administrator) [Msg # 42743.13 42743.11 ]

>>BUT the way that the money works you just about have to die not to get reelected<<

It's not the fault of the system... it's the voters who've either never gotten or threw away their civics education...

It really doesn't take all that long to look over a candidate's voting record and make some comparisons...

There are certainly enough organizations willing to compile the data and present it to the voters who care enough to make even a small effort...

I usually have a half dozen things come in via e-mail and my various organizational affiliations even before I fire up Goggle and Thomas.gov for real research<g>

Ted C Hall
Republican/History/Weather/Crime/Debate This!
"It isn't that Liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes” -- Mark Twain
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -- Mark Twain

Options

#14 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 7:21 PM

From Carl Feick (SYSOP) Posts 8879 Last Nov-21
To Ted C Hall (SysOp) [Msg # 42743.14 42743.12 ]

They could mostly use the same contract... it's still full of things that need doing

True but I would lead off with,

#1 A Pay Cut for congress. That would get a lot of votes by itself.

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#15 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 8:51 PM

From Greg Stephens (Administrator) Posts 1607 Last Jul-7
To Carl Feick (SYSOP) [Msg # 42743.15 42743.14 ]

AND repeal the automatic pay raise and do away with the retirement at salary as soon as you are elected.

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#16 of 23 Posted 2/1/09 10:53 PM

From Carl Feick (SYSOP) Posts 8879 Last Nov-21
To Greg Stephens (Administrator) [Msg # 42743.16 42743.15 ]

Well we have numbers 1, 2, and 3. winning issues by themselves. That would scare sitting Dems.

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#17 of 23 Posted 2/2/09 2:25 AM

From David Woodbury Posts 1299 Last Jun-6
To Carl Feick (SYSOP) [Msg # 42743.17 42743.9 ]

>>Gingrich nationalized the off year election with the "Contract with America" which won congress from the DNC for the first time in over 40 years. If the RNC were to do that again we would IMO get control of both houses in 2010.<<

Good plan. Chances are The People have forgotten, or are too young to remember, the absolute and disgraceful failure of the GOP to make good on its Contract with America.

Dave

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#18 of 23 Posted 2/2/09 7:31 AM

From Carl Feick (SYSOP) Posts 8879 Last Nov-21
To David Woodbury [Msg # 42743.18 42743.17 ]

Chances are The People have forgotten, or are too young to remember, the absolute and disgraceful failure of the GOP to make good on its Contract with America.

Actually, David, they did follow thru and complete The Contract with America. Quite a bit of it even became law.

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#19 of 23 Posted 2/2/09 8:01 PM

From David Woodbury Posts 1299 Last Jun-6
To Carl Feick (SYSOP) [Msg # 42743.19 42743.18 ]

>>Actually, David, they did follow thru and complete The Contract with America. Quite a bit of it even became law.<<

Carl,

I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, only three of the ten planks of the Contract with America ever made it into law, and those were the three least controversial ones: the Congressional Accountability Act of 1995, the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act of 1995, and the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995.

What else was there?

David

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#20 of 23 Posted 2/2/09 9:46 PM

From Carl Feick (SYSOP) Posts 8879 Last Nov-21
To David Woodbury [Msg # 42743.20 42743.19 ]

I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, only three of the ten planks of the Contract with America ever made it into law, and those were the three least controversial ones: the Congressional Accountability Act of 1995, the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act of 1995, and the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995.

welfare reform was passed and signed into law. Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act
Legal reform Private Securities Litigation Reform Act
The job Creation and wage enhancement act was turned into four bills of which one became law.
these were done in spite of a president who was against them. as for the contract itself what was promised was that within the first 100 days the ten items would be voted on. and they were. 9 of ten passed, the tenth needed a 2/3 majority since it was to become an amendment and did not get the needed votes. No promise was made that these items would become law as such a promise is beyond the capability of the House.
But then requiring congress to follow the laws of the land that previously congress exempted itself from was a biggie.

Edited 2/2/09 by Carl Feick (SYSOP)

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