From Judith To All:
I'm very proud of all the people in this Forum, we are all seekers of God's revelations to us. Now, the most important issue for us should be the future. According to my comprehension there is only one thing to look forward to, and that is the second coming of Christ. As for the present, we all in this forum know that the temple of God is in Heaven. That the Kingdom of God, which is the world was given to Christ. That Christian Churches were build all over the world with people who are ordained to carry out the services he instruct them to follow. That the Christian church has been divided into sects, and we are all wondering which one is the true one. According to the bible there is a power coming that is going to destroy all faith, and it will exalt and defy believers all over the world. And will sit in God's temple and claim to be God. This will be the sign that Christ coming is near. The bible also states that the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but it doesn't tell us who he is. The bible also states that something is in his way, and when what is hindering him gets out of the way, he will make his full impact in the world. Does anyone have any idea who that man can be. This is the sign of the second coming of Christ.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled
From Judith:
This all happen prior to the birth of Christ. When the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah fell, and the people of the land were led away captive and those left were under the jurisdiction of Gentile Nations. With the first coming of Christ after the tribulation, the Kingdom of God was established in Heaven, and all those who believe and trusted God to save them, were transported into his kingdom. Which is still going on today. Are you in agreement with this or not?
>>Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled<<
>From Judith: This all happen prior to the birth of Christ.<
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:"The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. (
I know that one day the Kingdom of God will return to Earth. Just like there was a tribulation and a rapture at his first coming. There will be a tribulation, and a rapture at his second coming. We are to keep a watchful eye for this event. It's at his second coming that the New Jerusalem will be established. At present I believe we are going through the tribulation, the free nations under God, and the christians all over the world are going through a crisis. The people in the holy land are in disorder and confusion. We are all being led by lawless leaders who do exactly what pleases them, and care nothing for the people of the Nations they govern. Soon by flattery and intrigue the lawless man will take control of the world and will defy anything that is righteous. Those gifted in the things of God will stumble and fall, but this will only refine and cleanse them until the final trials, at God's appointed time!
>> Does anyone have any idea who that man can be.>>
Judith, your own Bible tells you quite clearly who that man of sin is. But, it isn't just one man. It is a series of them. They are called different things in different parts of the Bible. Beast power, Antichrist, little horn, man of sin, etc... They are all one and the same. John said that the antichrist was at work in his day. 1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." So, don't let anyone tell you that he is future.Paul says that he will be revealed at the end of time in 2 Thes. 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"So, all you need to do is find out what a beast is and that is a start. Look in Daniel.
Harold.
Did the predicted events in Like and matthew 24:1-36 happen before Christ? No, He predicted them and so had to be alive to do so. He was not giving an account of past events but of ones in HIS AND THERI FUTURE AT THAT TIME.
In these passages Jesus predicts events that would happen in His and their future, and they all did, in 70 A.D., just exactly as His precise spot on prediction syid they would.
But there are some events predicted 5hat are still future, just prior to the second coming. These include antichrist givien his final period of work, being set loose from teh pit to decieve the nations as John has it in one place, unbound from teh cross binding in thaty sense. There will also be a final ingathering of Jews to saving faith in Christ, as in Romans 11, which in turn will spur revival in the gentiles as well. There will also be ongoign regular living, the timing of the event will take all by surprise so no events special to it will be going on that we will see, though the fact of it is no surprise to beleivers. If the language in Revelation is more than symbolic, in matthew and like it is clearly literal of physicla events that happened, but in Rev. it appears more as picutres, but it could have osme literal aspects, we could also see some increase in odd natural events and desasters. We will also see many in the visible church tuirning aside from Christ, as common apostasy against Him [yet, as noted above, this in the midst of revival goign on, bot].
But the next event all will see for what it is is the secodn coming, the judgment of the world, and the setting up of the new heavens and new earth. . .
The man of sin is really a whole series of men? ah, what happened to takign the bible literally as it stands here?
The bible is clearly refering to ONE MAN, the man of sin, singular, and not to a whole series of men. What the passage says is that ONE MAN, the man of sin, will be present, not a series of men or group of men but one man. The antichrist is one human individual man here [he is one who is one of many antichrists already in the world as John notes, all throuygh church hsitory there have been false teachers, but in this passage the reference is to one final man who in himself sums up what they all are]. Thus in thsi passage there is no reference to a series of men, but to ONE MAN, to impose some allegorical idea of it meaning 'many men' is to abuse and distort the bible.
>>The bible is clearly refering to ONE MAN, the man of sin, singular, and not to a whole series of men. <<
One man at t time. John even said that there was more than one.1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
Yes, irschrs, this is what is going to happen on the second coming of Christ! But this will not happen till the end of this world. And no one knows when it will happen, not even Christ.
Again, what Paul refers to is not one man at a time being the man of lawlessness that must come out before the secodn coming, but ONE MAN. Not one of a series, but one man. This passage never allows us to identify the man of lawlessness with many men in a series or at different times. It speaks of ONE of them.
Now many antichrists were int eh world in John's day, 500 years before the RCC ever existed!, so the antichrist cnanot be identified as that group of men. Pretend Christ abound in history, false prophets or teahcers who exault themselves,. A few of them werte even Roman Popes, and some of them were self professed Protestants and Evangelicals, as we see oftne today with many who claim to be more than they are. All who put forth another way of salvation than the free gift of God in Christ by the cross are pretned Christs, antichrist, enemies of the cross and so of God. All who add works to the cause of salvation are preaching another gospel that is not another of the same sort, but something radically different, they are cursed of God. Galatians 1:6010, 3:10-14. All who make some road to heaven by means of man or man's good works or goodness are on the wide road that leads to damnation. The cross is the narrow way, the one way that is Christ. Galatians 2:16-24.
>>All who put forth another way of salvation than the free gift of God in Christ by the cross are pretned Christs, antichrist, enemies of the cross and so of God. <<
There. You have given us several definitions of 'antichrist'. That is right. That word can also mean, 'in place of Christ'. Do you know of anyone on earth claiming that? I do.
<<That word can also mean, 'in place of Christ'. Do you know of anyone on earth claiming that? I do.>>
No you don't. You just know the stupid stuff that feeds your hatred of other Christians.
<<Obedience without love is as impossible as it is worthless. >>
That's you.
>>No you don't. You just know the stupid stuff that feeds your hatred of other Christians>>
Keep your head in the sand. You know as well as I do that the pope has called himself Christ on earth.. Why deny it? It is written down for all the world to see.. You can go on deny ing it as long as you like, but it won't change a thing. Not a word.
<<You know as well as I do that the pope has called himself Christ on earth.. Why deny it?>>
EVERY CHRISTIAN is "Christ on earth." What do you think the words "Body of Christ" means?
Ooops! Sorry. I just realized that I asked you to think. My mistake.
<<EVERY CHRISTIAN is "Christ on earth." What do you think the words "Body of Christ" means?>>
The church, of course. THE church. The one pointed out in Revelation 12:17.
<<THE church. The one pointed out in Revelation 12:17.>>
"Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus."
So that brings us back to the question I have all ready asked you in the other thread; do you keep all of God's commandments including both the ten in stone and the 600+ that are written in the Book of the law?
The possible answers are stil "yes" or "no."
Either you do or you do not.
>>But the next event all will see for what it is is the secodn coming, the judgment of the world, and the setting up of the new heavens and new earth. . . <<
The millennial reign comes before the judgment of the world. And some claim that the rapture comes before the second coming.
First, no Pope has called himself 'Christ on earht'. They have at times said they are a representitive of Christ, the key one in fact, but this is a far differnt thing from saying they are Christ. Now I would reject the idea of the Pope being a special sort of representitive of Christ on earth, but many of them, not all, have representied Him here, and sometimes rather well, as ambassadors of His Kingdom, as are all beleivers. [on the otehr hand, some have done a really poor job, again, just as with other Chrsitians]. Now just as an ambassador represents his or her king, and we sometimes say that the king spoke as they spoke, being one who has as it were a 'power of attorney' assigned to speak for the king, so sometimes men speak of the speech of the king which was more exactly that of His representitive, who if he said he personaally was king would be guilty of high treason. One has to look at what exactly is and is not meant in such cases.
In another sense as Luther noted, we are all called to be a 'little Christ to our neighbor', to be 'Christ' to him, not in personal being, but in demonstating His love to them. Such devotional language is common in church history, in all the branches of the church. Again, the precise meanign it has as used should be first discerned.
