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Buy,Build,Overclock

Which Processor

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#1 of 30

     Posted Oct-27 4:35 PM   
Charles C
 
From  Charles C  Posts 112  Last Nov-15
To  All      [Msg # 164709.1 ]    

I'm thinking about a replacement for my Dell 8300 (Pentium 4, 80 GB hard drive).  I've had several Dells and have been very happy with them including the fact that they have local hardware service people.

The 80 GB hard drive was a little small once I started saving downloaded files but a 160 GB external drive solved that problem.

(1)  Given that I'm quite happy with the disk space I now have I see no reason to go for the 1 TB drives now offered but perhaps, for the small incremental cost, I should do so?

(2)  I'm confused about the different processors offered by Intel and used by Dell.  I certainly no longer do any work that would be benefit from 64-bit processors.  My prime uses of my computer are internet (Firefox), e-mail (Thunderbird), word-processing and spreadsheets (WordPerfect 12) and Quicken for my personal finances.  The latter is probably my biggest concern since I've never upgraded from Quicken 2001 so I would like to be sure that it would install on a new computer so as to be able to use the old-format data files.

(3) Dell seems to offer only DVD drives but on this machine I have both a DVD and CD drive (as well as a 3-1/2" floppy).  Will the new DVD drives read old CDs or should I copy my old backups from CD to DVD?

Any suggestion would be gratefully accepted.

And - my goodness it seems such a long time ago that I used a teletype machine with an acoustic modem as a terminal!

...Charles

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#2 of 30

     Posted Oct-27 6:36 PM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last Nov-21
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.2 Message 164709.2 replying to 164709.1 164709.1 ]    

>> Given that I'm quite happy with the disk space I now have I see no reason to go for the 1 TB drives now offered but perhaps, for the small incremental cost, I should do so? >>

Why not? Certainly you wouldn't want something less than 500 gigs. The price difference is so small as to be of no concern, and there's never anything wrong with having more drive space than you can imagine using.

>>  I certainly no longer do any work that would be benefit from 64-bit processors. My prime uses of my computer are internet (Firefox), e-mail (Thunderbird), word-processing and spreadsheets (WordPerfect 12) and Quicken for my personal finances. The latter is probably my biggest concern since I've never upgraded from Quicken 2001 so I would like to be sure that it would install on a new computer so as to be able to use the old-format data files. >>

I doubt you'll find a current Dell computer without a 64-bit processor of at least dual cores. It would make no sense to get anything less. The future is in 64 bits, and why buy a computer that is already very obsolete? Your old stuff will run fine on a 64-bit processor. What OS are you planning to use? As for Quicken, it's not so expensive that you couldn't afford to get the newest version. Check around and see if there is a conversion utility for old-format data files. There is most likely a way you can get them into a newer Quicken. It would make no sense to get an obsolete computer for the sake of one obsolete application.

>> Dell seems to offer only DVD drives but on this machine I have both a DVD and CD drive (as well as a 3-1/2" floppy). Will the new DVD drives read old CDs or should I copy my old backups from CD to DVD? >>

Of course, unless your CDs were made with packet-writing software that uses a format not recognized by the new computer. But a DVD drive reads any old standard CD. Be sure you get a DVD *writer* (DVD +/- R/RW), not just a DVD reader.
--Judy M.


----------------------------------------
Registered Linux User #397786
Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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#3 of 30

     Posted Oct-27 6:43 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 547  Last Nov-21
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.3 Message 164709.3 replying to 164709.1 164709.1 ]    

Judy correctly says (a lot <g>) but:

<<  Your old stuff will run fine on a 64-bit processor.  >>

Software maybe in most cases -- I honestly do not know but you should also check your existing external hardware like printers or scanners since you may not find drivers for them and even if there are generic drivers in WIN 7 for some older hardware it very likely will not give all the functions in the printer (like I didn't get duplex printing on one of mine even with 32 bit WIN 7.

It might be a good idea to run the Microsoft compatibility test on the old computer with all software and hardware plugged in and see if it will report on the peripherals even if the system fails.

  Hugh

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#4 of 30

     Posted Oct-27 6:56 PM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last Nov-21
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164709.4 Message 164709.4 replying to 164709.3 164709.3 ]    

I wasn't talking about a 64-bit OS, but a 64-bit *processor*. You can run 32-bit XP on a 64-bit processor and for all I know, you can run 98SE on a 64-bit processor. You can certainly run 98SE in a virtual machine on a 64-bit processor.

As you say, drivers are another issue, insofar as we're talking about a 64-bit OS. And of course, a newer computer may not have drivers for quite a few things that ran on an old computer, regardless of operating system.
--Judy M.


----------------------------------------
Registered Linux User #397786
Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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#5 of 30

     Posted Oct-27 7:31 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 547  Last Nov-21
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164709.5 Message 164709.5 replying to 164709.4 164709.4 ]    

Yes -- your current experience with 64 bit OS is too much in my mind.

But my point is actually very valid and I'll stress to Charles to beware of machines that come with 64 bit Windows -- which so many even cheap ones do these days -- so stick with 32 bit WIndows 7 since the 3 and a bit GB of RAM (they may install 3 or 4 GB but if you see 6 or 8GB offered then it will be 64 bit Windows) for the reasons I gave about compatible hardware.

  Hugh

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#6 of 30

     Posted Oct-27 9:38 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1973  Last Nov-21
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.6 Message 164709.6 replying to 164709.1 164709.1 ]    

Must you purchase a Dell unit?

HD space is a no-brainer.  500G drives are "the norm" and 1T+ drives are gaining traction...

Install 2 DVD burners - CD only drives are obsolete.  DVD drives read both CD's and DVD's...

64 bit Windows is finally getting off the ground as device drivers get up to speed.  While Windows 7 still comes in 32-bit, it will most likely be the last...

You WILL need to upgrade Quicken as the 2001 version won't install on Vista or Windows 7...

If you use a local builder, you may be avle to still get a system with XP.  If you purchase a Dell, you will need Windows 7 Professional and "downgrade" to XP, at a higher cost...

 

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#7 of 30

     Posted Oct-28 11:11 AM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1607  Last Nov-21
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.7 Message 164709.7 replying to 164709.1 164709.1 ]    

Honestly, Charles, it sounds like you've got no reason to upgrade at all.

As for Dell having local service men...I don't think they do. They contract out to locals all over the country, and the quality of the response varies just depending on who has your local contract at the moment.

Your computer does what you want it to do? And you're not looking to do anything new and demanding? Then just keep it. Every new machine brings new problems, if the old one is working and you're happy, save your money. The longer you wait, the cheaper and faster they get. And one day, they may even get reliable. (HA.)

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#8 of 30

     Posted Oct-28 4:48 PM   
Ron
 
From  Ron  Posts 57  Last Nov-21
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.8 Message 164709.8 replying to 164709.1 164709.1 ]    
Charles... it sounds like you'd be happy with just about any "off the shelf" machine. Even low price "economy" PC's are going to come with dual core processors and generous hard disks. And I suspect that, even though you may not believe it now, you'll be glad to have them. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about software bloat. Never mind Windows...even things like Firefox and Thunderbird (which I also use) will be happier with a faster processor, more hard disk space and more RAM. Just because you have a Core 2 duo, 500GB drive and 4GB of ram doesn't mean that you have to max it out every time you boot up. However, if...when the time comes that you need them, you'll be set.

--Ron

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#9 of 30

     Posted Oct-28 4:59 PM   
Charles C
 
From  Charles C  Posts 112  Last Nov-15
To  groucho      [Msg # 164709.9 Message 164709.9 replying to 164709.7 164709.7 ]    
True enough about the "local" service men.  It's a local company with which I've dealt in the past and there are still people there whom I see occasionally.
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#10 of 30

     Posted Oct-28 5:06 PM   
Charles C
 
From  Charles C  Posts 112  Last Nov-15
To  All      [Msg # 164709.10 Message 164709.10 replying to 164709.8 164709.8 ]    

Thanks to all for their responses.  

Despite my comfort with Dell, there is a local firm that I've dealt with in the past and which treated me very well - "no charge just some advice" & "$5 since it only took a few minutes".    My one concern is my Dell 3000cn printer.

...Charles

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#11 of 30

     Posted Oct-29 4:17 AM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last Nov-21
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.11 Message 164709.11 replying to 164709.10 164709.10 ]    

>> My one concern is my Dell 3000cn printer. >>

It's a rebadged printer from someone else, like Lexmark or Canon. As long as you can get a driver for whatever version of Windows you get, you'll be fine.

Does it use USB or a parallel port? Parallel ports are getting rare, and if the printer is more than a couple of years old, Win 7 may not support it. I'd suggest checking Dell's Web site.
--Judy M.


----------------------------------------
Registered Linux User #397786
Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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#12 of 30

     Posted Oct-29 4:28 PM   
Charles C
 
From  Charles C  Posts 112  Last Nov-15
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164709.12 Message 164709.12 replying to 164709.11 164709.11 ]    

It will use both a USB and parallel port, Judy.  On this machine it didn't work when I first used the USB connection so I tried the parallel cable.  It worked so I didn't even experiment again with the USB.

I certainly will be asking Dell about using the printer. It was not cheap to buy (although inexpensive to run - at least for me) so I'll be telling Dell "No driver for the printer,. no new computer for me."

...Charles

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#13 of 30

     Posted Oct-29 5:26 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 547  Last Nov-21
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.13 Message 164709.13 replying to 164709.12 164709.12 ]    

A PCI card with parallel port on should not be expensive, unless they are rare birds these days. I bought one when I needed 2 parallel ports on my desktop. Not so cheap if it's a laptop of course.

BTW Dell seem to have a full set of drivers

  Hugh


Edited Oct-29   by  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
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#14 of 30

     Posted Oct-30 4:08 PM   
Charles C
 
From  Charles C  Posts 112  Last Nov-15
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164709.14 Message 164709.14 replying to 164709.13 164709.13 ]    

Thank you!

I remember buying a card to support a second parallel device (my first scanner?) in what now seems to be "a way back when".

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#15 of 30

     Posted Oct-30 4:22 PM   
Irwin
 
From  Irwin  Posts 685  Last Nov-20
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.15 Message 164709.15 replying to 164709.1 164709.1 ]    
Charles,

Before giving any advice on processor I'd like to know if you're having any problem with your current system -- is too slow?  Is there things you'd like to do but can't?

How about budget?  How much do you want to spend?  Do you want to spend as little as possible, or do you want to get the best "bang for bucks" for a certain amount of money?

I'm not sure about Windows 7 but I think Quicken 2001 can be installed in Vista with a bit of fiddling -- try Googling and see what you come up with.

I think your Dell printer works with Vista, you can make sure by checking Windows 7 compatibility list for hardware here:

https://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/default.aspx?type=Hardware



iK© Without OzWin v2.33
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#16 of 30

     Posted Oct-30 4:44 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 547  Last Nov-21
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.16 Message 164709.16 replying to 164709.14 164709.14 ]    

I had to a have a scsi card for my HP SJ5P scanner. It came with a 8 bit one but that soon got outgrown by technology and I had to get an adaptec 16 bit one later on. I'm still using that scanner with a later Adaptec card that I needed for W2K probably, not sure, but it's one reason why I am not using 64 bit WIndows 7 on Ollie 3 -- no 64 bit driver for it.

Funny thing is that Adaptec in their KB says No No to whether they have or plan to have a compatible WIN 7 driver and don't go beyond XP for that card ... but it works fine under VISTA and Windows 7 using the XP files ....

However I just checked to see what they say about VISTA x86 and 64 and it says there are drivers in the VISTA package .... I must dig out my VISTA CD or check the VISTA drive I have and see.

  Hugh

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#17 of 30

     Posted Oct-30 11:21 PM   
Frank
 
From  Frank  Posts 193  Last Nov-21
To  Charles C      [Msg # 164709.17 Message 164709.17 replying to 164709.1 164709.1 ]    
>> The latter is probably my biggest concern since I've never upgraded from Quicken 2001 so I would like to be sure that it would install on a new computer so as to be able to use the old-format data files. <<

  I've used Quicken for several years and never had a problem with upgrading it, but I've never gone that many versions without an upgrade. Depending on the OS you're going to have (I assume it'll be Windows 7), your version of Quicken may not even run or convert your old files. So what I'd advise doing is get a new version of Quicken and install it on your old computer, letting it convert your files. If it works, you can save them to a flash drive and then use them on the new computer.

  I'd advise going to the Intuit forum (here) and asking there, since there are lots of people with lots of experience with Quicken. One thing which might be helpful is telling them which OS you have and which you will have.


- Frank
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#18 of 30

     Posted Oct-31 1:05 AM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last Nov-21
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164709.18 Message 164709.18 replying to 164709.16 164709.16 ]    

I'm still using an 8-bit Adaptec ISA SCSI card with my 12-1/2-year-old Microtek scanner. It's attached to my older 1.3 GHz desktop computer that has XP. That computer will not be upgraded. XP has a driver for the SCSI card and I use Windows 2000 software for the scanner.

The scanner is not supported under Win 7 (of course) and I doubt the SCSI card is. The optical resolution of the scanner is 600 dpi (600x1200) and the time is coming when I should get a better scanner with higher resolution. I probably won't replace it until it croaks. I have two other scanners from my two cheap all-in-ones, but they're worse than the Microtek and are okay for quick and dirty but not for anything important, like photos you want to keep.

The Microtek and the SCSI card are well supported under Linux. The old desktop is my only computer with an ISA slot and I wouldn't buy a different SCSI card--too expensive for such an old scanner. Same for an adapter.
--Judy M.


----------------------------------------
Registered Linux User #397786
Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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#19 of 30

     Posted Oct-31 11:21 AM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 547  Last Nov-21
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164709.19 Message 164709.19 replying to 164709.18 164709.18 ]    
I remember now the reason for the change from the "HP" scsi card -- it was not the bittery but the new PC was going to have scsi hard drives and they needed a PCI card and 160 scsi connections. I was lucky that the Adaptec 19160 card had that plus the exact external connector to take the scsi cable that came with tahe SJ5P scanner. Otherwise it would have cost me more than the new card to get an adapter or a new scsi to scanner cable.

  Hugh

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#20 of 30

     Posted Oct-31 4:21 PM   
Charles C
 
From  Charles C  Posts 112  Last Nov-15
To  Irwin      [Msg # 164709.20 Message 164709.20 replying to 164709.15 164709.15 ]    

Thanks, Irwin.

My primary reason is that my system seems to be slowing down.  I have a folder on an external drive with one folder that includes about 4000 sub-folders containing, in total, about 50000 files - no programs just data of one kind or another.  I thought a new computer with more memory might help speed up Explorer.  Perhaps I should disconnect that drive and see if things improve.  BTW, there's also a Windows file on that drive which didn't appear until I'd had the drive for some time.  I wonder if it's there because of the huge number of files I have?  (It's one of those files with apparently hexadecimal random numbers as a filename.

I would like to spend less than C$1000 since I plan to keep my old monitor.

Yes - I checked with Dell and the printer will continue to function with the Vista driver.

Finally, my problem with the processors is really understanding why Intel has so many of them - especially for most users who don't do much floating-point arithmetic.   I could see the slight advantage of Sperry (Unisys)' 36-bit processor over the IBM 32-bit for scientific calculations but even in the geodetic calculations I once did I didn't see any difference larger than 1/10 of a millimetre - at least for plane surveying.

...Charles

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