PC Hardware

     Go!
Prospero Blocks


 

Chat Center

PCHW Conference Room
Topic: PC Hardware

Board Folders

Forum News: 1501 msgs in 130 dscns, Latest: Oct-31 Forum News
1501 msgs in 130 dscns
Latest: Oct-31
Video Audio: 4881 msgs in 503 dscns, Latest: Nov-16 Video Audio
4881 msgs in 503 dscns
Latest: Nov-16
Laptops,Notebooks: 5172 msgs in 470 dscns, Latest: Sep-10 Laptops,Notebooks
5172 msgs in 470 dscns
Latest: Sep-10
Hard Drives: 8801 msgs in 657 dscns, Latest: Nov-21 Hard Drives
8801 msgs in 657 dscns
Latest: Nov-21
CD, DVD, Tape Drives: 5628 msgs in 483 dscns, Latest: Nov-18 CD, DVD, Tape ...
5628 msgs in 483 dscns
Latest: Nov-18
CPUs & Motherboards: 5029 msgs in 421 dscns, Latest: Nov-18 CPUs & Motherb...
5029 msgs in 421 dscns
Latest: Nov-18
Buy,Build,Overclock: 3138 msgs in 146 dscns, Latest: Nov-21 Buy,Build,Over...
3138 msgs in 146 dscns
Latest: Nov-21
Network Hardware: 5350 msgs in 389 dscns, Latest: Nov-19 Network Hardware
5350 msgs in 389 dscns
Latest: Nov-19
Benchmarks/Standards: 645 msgs in 143 dscns, Latest: Nov-21 Benchmarks/Sta...
645 msgs in 143 dscns
Latest: Nov-21
Print & Scan: 9056 msgs in 716 dscns, Latest: Nov-18 Print & Scan
9056 msgs in 716 dscns
Latest: Nov-18
Engineering: 1387 msgs in 72 dscns, Latest: Oct-17 Engineering
1387 msgs in 72 dscns
Latest: Oct-17
Misc Hardware: 8097 msgs in 631 dscns, Latest: Nov-19 Misc Hardware
8097 msgs in 631 dscns
Latest: Nov-19
Hot Topics: 1939 msgs in 93 dscns, Latest: Jul-22 Hot Topics
1939 msgs in 93 dscns
Latest: Jul-22
Village Inn: 4691 msgs in 254 dscns, Latest: Nov-20 Village Inn
4691 msgs in 254 dscns
Latest: Nov-20
Message Area
Hard Drives

Windows 7 Slow Disk

 Subscribe SubscribeCreate Poll Create PollGet a printer-friendly version of this discussion Print Discussion 

#1 of 28

     Posted Nov-7 7:41 AM   
Roy Longbottom
 
From  Roy Longbottom  Posts 166  Last Nov-21
To  All      [Msg # 164721.1 ]    

The WD6400AACS (Green) disk on my new PC was slower than expected. I anticipated possibly 120 MB/second maximum reading speed but the best that I got was around 80. The disk specification does not indicate rotation speed but says IntelliPower instead of an RPM value. The disk drive is often advertised as 7200 RPM but it seems that this is based on a claim of 7200 RPM performance levels. Other benchmarks also indicate that the disk is not as fast as other modern counterparts. Seagate says “Have you ever wondered what IntelliPower stands for? Wonder how it works? It’s simple—IntelliPower is equal to 5400 RPM”.

http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/whitepaper/mb_intellipower_exposed.pdf 

My disk has three partitions of 224, 224 and 146 GB (241, 241, 158 GB decimal). I ran the benchmark on the D: partition as the first area of this ought to be nearly as fast as C:. I ran the tests on C:, where maximum speed was 102 MB/second then on E:. Surprise, surprise, that produced 93 MB/second.

I then looked at the sizes shown on Computer where D: is 146 GB and E: 224 GB. It looks as though Windows 7 has misinterpreted partition positions. Some software that can be simply copied from another PC has complex BAT files that use D:. I wonder if I could simply change partition letters in Disk Management. Here, the partitions shown are in the order C: Boot, E: Primary Partition and D: Logical Drive.

Roy


Edited Nov-7   by  Roy Longbottom
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#2 of 28

     Posted Nov-7 12:36 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1973  Last Nov-21
To  Roy Longbottom      [Msg # 164721.2 Message 164721.2 replying to 164721.1 164721.1 ]    

>>I wonder if I could simply change partition letters in Disk Management

As long as it's not the OS volume or where the Swap file resides, you can change drive letters to your heart's content...

 

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#3 of 28

     Posted Nov-7 12:48 PM   
Roy Longbottom
 
From  Roy Longbottom  Posts 166  Last Nov-21
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164721.3 Message 164721.3 replying to 164721.2 164721.2 ]    
Thanks Dale
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#4 of 28

     Posted Nov-7 10:25 PM   
John (staff)
 
From  John (staff)  Posts 833  Last Nov-21
To  Roy Longbottom      [Msg # 164721.4 Message 164721.4 replying to 164721.1 164721.1 ]    
"Green" as in energy-saving?  Power consumption at idle is roughly proportional to the square of the RPM, for the same number of disks.  Roughly because a myriad of minor design details can affect the power consumption for better or for worse.
For a given RPM, power consumption goes up somewhat less than linearly with the number of disks.  (It's a proportionality factor, usually between 0.9 and 1.0).
Modern hard drives are usually limited in capacity by factors other than the theoretically possible data density on the disk.  Very often the read/write circuitry can't keep up with the possible bit rate on the outer part of the disk.  (Amazingly that's still true 10 years after I retired!)  So if you spin slower you'll use less power.  You can also cram more data on a surface and maybe get rid of a disk or at least a head, which also reduces power consumption and improves reliability - less stuff to break.  Also, at lower RPM, the disk doesn't flap around as much - it vibrates less because there's less kinetic energy floating around between the disks, their entrained air and the walls of the drive and the heads.  That means there's less lost energy.
However, if you're going slow enough that the read/write circuitry can write the maximum data density, then the data rate is determined by the density, not by the read/write circuit's speed capability.  So going slower can result in a lower maximum data rate.
All of this ignores the I/O channel.  That's another bag of worms and outside the range of my knowledge.


John - Santa Clara, CA

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#5 of 28

     Posted Nov-7 10:30 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1973  Last Nov-21
To  John (staff)      [Msg # 164721.5 Message 164721.5 replying to 164721.4 164721.4 ]    

Thanks - I was hoping you would chime in with your experience!  <smile>

 

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#6 of 28

     Posted Nov-8 5:56 AM   
Roy Longbottom
 
From  Roy Longbottom  Posts 166  Last Nov-21
To  John (staff)      [Msg # 164721.6 Message 164721.6 replying to 164721.4 164721.4 ]    

John

I was aware of the read/write circuitry limitation (you probably pointed it out earlier <g>). Looking at the comparable range of WD disks, maximum data transfer speed is not that much slower on the 5400 RPM green versions. I assume that this is due to more data on each track. This also provides some credibility to the marketing claim of 7200 RPM (obscure reference to speed). The main performance limitation is on random access, with latency of 5.56 ms compared with 4.17 ms.

Roy

 

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#7 of 28

     Posted Nov-8 12:49 PM   
John (staff)
 
From  John (staff)  Posts 833  Last Nov-21
To  Roy Longbottom      [Msg # 164721.7 Message 164721.7 replying to 164721.6 164721.6 ]    
I expect you're right about the data transfer - and you're exactly right on the access time.
Have you looked at power consumption?  One would hope for about 30% less power than an equivalent 7200 RPM drive.
[edit below]
I did some Googling and found a PDF spec sheet. http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701229.pdf

It appears that they're varying the RPM, but of course they don't say exactly. 
[edit again]
I guess I was wrong.  Here's a StorageReview link that may help.  http://www.storagereview.com/1000.sr?page=0%2C2
If the link doesn't work, it's a review called "Faceoff at One Terabyte" and you can get to it via StorageReview's "Articles and Reviews" tab.
From what they say, it's probably 5400 RPM.
I disagree that it would be particularly difficult or expensive to vary the spin speed - you'd need a variable frequency spin clock instead of just a crystal, and that's about it.

John - Santa Clara, CA


Edited Nov-8   by  John (staff)

Edited Nov-8   by  John (staff)
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#8 of 28

     Posted Nov-8 12:53 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 547  Last Nov-21
To  Roy Longbottom      [Msg # 164721.8 Message 164721.8 replying to 164721.6 164721.6 ]    

It's one thing to say "Performance equivalent to a 7200rpm drive" if that is the case and not the same as claiming it is a 7200rpm drive when it is not.

From what John is saying it sounds as though it is perfectly possible to design a 5400rpm drive with the same performance as a specific 7200 rpm drive with consequent advantages in power consumption, noise and so on and for me it would be performance that matters.

  Hugh

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#9 of 28

     Posted Nov-8 1:20 PM   
John (staff)
 
From  John (staff)  Posts 833  Last Nov-21
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164721.9 Message 164721.9 replying to 164721.8 164721.8 ]    
I can't say the same performance, Hugh, but similar performance is certainly possible.  As Roy mentioned and the StorageReview article I found and linked in my second edit above, access time suffers because of increased rotational latency.  That's partly compensated by cramming more data onto each track, especially in the outer part of the disk. 

John - Santa Clara, CA

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#10 of 28

     Posted Nov-8 1:40 PM   
Roy Longbottom
 
From  Roy Longbottom  Posts 166  Last Nov-21
To  John (staff)      [Msg # 164721.10 Message 164721.10 replying to 164721.7 164721.7 ]    

John

I did see power consumption claims. I think that it was reduced from around 8 watts to less than 4, idling. You should read the Seagate link I quoted earlier. This exposes the misleading marketing.

http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/whitepaper/mb_intellipower_exposed.pdf  

I see that you have edited the msg as I write this.

Roy

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#11 of 28

     Posted Nov-8 6:35 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 547  Last Nov-21
To  John (staff)      [Msg # 164721.11 Message 164721.11 replying to 164721.9 164721.9 ]    
Marketing usually has a fairly wide tolerance on the precision of words .....

  Hugh

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#12 of 28

     Posted Nov-8 9:17 PM   
John Barreiro
 
From  John Barreiro  Posts 197  Last Nov-21
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164721.12 Message 164721.12 replying to 164721.11 164721.11 ]    
>>Marketing usually has a fairly wide tolerance on the precision of words ..... <<

or

"They take a wide latitude with the truth" ... --- much like the average politician <G>
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#13 of 28

     Posted Nov-8 10:20 PM   
John (staff)
 
From  John (staff)  Posts 833  Last Nov-21
To  Roy Longbottom      [Msg # 164721.13 Message 164721.13 replying to 164721.10 164721.10 ]    
I kept saying to myself, "Hm.  Maybe there's something there."  Seagate was obviously also playing a marketing game, too, taking the high, hallowed ground stance.  Probably envious that they didn't think of it first.

It's funny - back before I retired, faster spindle speed was the Marketing Mantra - each product had to spin faster, and the RPM had to be some multiple of 60.  Except 10,000.
The motors will spin at any speed they're told to spin at.  We (mechanical engineers) did analyses of the optimum spin speed given various other parameters - disk and bearing vibration frequencies, available and projected read/write speeds, available and projected disk densities, etc.  Of course, being a computer model, you always get funny numbers.  The real trick was to run so as to find what speeds would be good, AND what speeds would be BAD.  A "good" speed within say 100 RPM of a "bad" speed isn't all that wonderful. 
Back in the day, about 6000 RPM was better than 5400, but it wasn't a number that the marketeers had talked about in the bar over martinis, so it never happened.

Does my cynicism show?

John

John - Santa Clara, CA

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#14 of 28

     Posted Nov-9 4:56 AM   
Roy Longbottom
 
From  Roy Longbottom  Posts 166  Last Nov-21
To  John (staff)      [Msg # 164721.14 Message 164721.14 replying to 164721.13 164721.13 ]    

It seems as though Seagate's response is the 5900 RPM disk - at least they admit it.

Roy

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#15 of 28

     Posted Nov-9 3:45 PM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1607  Last Nov-21
To  Roy Longbottom      [Msg # 164721.15 Message 164721.15 replying to 164721.1 164721.1 ]    

"Some software that can be simply copied from another PC has complex BAT files that use D:. I wonder if I could simply change partition letters in Disk Management. Here, the partitions shown are in the order C: Boot, E: Primary Partition and D: Logical Drive."

I'd be reluctant to change the drive lettering scheme only because every MS OS since DOS uses the same (unwritten?) rules to enumerate drives and drive partitions, i.e. Boot drive, other primary partitions, then logical and extended partitions--always in the same sequence. It is possible that by changing the assignments "outside" of the normal order, at some point some software is going to jump on them and mess them up. As MS themselves have done in the past, infrequently but done.

Why not use a search-n-replace tool to change the drive letters in the batch file? Any number of text editors will do a global search on D:\ and change it to E:\ etcetera. When I assign drive letters, I try to do so above the range of the actual physical devices, i.e. starting backwards from Z: or upwards from K: to make sure I don't mess with anything the OS might be expecting.

And then again, the old ASSIGN and SUBST commands should always still work as well.<G>

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#16 of 28

     Posted Nov-9 4:42 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 547  Last Nov-21
To  groucho      [Msg # 164721.16 Message 164721.16 replying to 164721.15 164721.15 ]    

CTRL + F does a great job in replacing drive letters or paths in INI files. F3 takes you on to the next instance.

I've used it frequently when moving VA/VAOS from one place or computer to another since it is independent of the registry.

  Hugh

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#17 of 28

     Posted Nov-9 6:21 PM   
Roy Longbottom
 
From  Roy Longbottom  Posts 166  Last Nov-21
To  groucho      [Msg # 164721.17 Message 164721.17 replying to 164721.15 164721.15 ]    

Thank but too late. I changed them just before I saw your msg.

> every MS OS since DOS uses the same (unwritten?) rules to enumerate drives and drive partitions, i.e. Boot drive, other primary partitions, then logical and extended partitions--always in the same sequence. <

Every one except my 64-Bit Windows 7 ????

Attached are System Information details. Disk Drive partitions are listed in the expected order (and confirmed by disk benchmarks) - 224 GB (fastest), 224 GB and 147 GB (slowest).

Drive Information originally had the sequence C:, E:, D: (slowest) shown as 147 GB in Computer (but I didn’t notice to start with).

Roy


Attachments
Name:   SysInfo.txtSize:   2 K
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#18 of 28

     Posted Nov-9 11:53 PM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1607  Last Nov-21
To  Roy Longbottom      [Msg # 164721.18 Message 164721.18 replying to 164721.17 164721.17 ]    

Roy, if Win7 changes the rules for drive enumeration, that's news to me. Bear in mind that Win7 is just NT6.1, so it is largely NT6 at heart.

Your first partition is in inacitve hidden maintenance partition--WIndows won't be assigning a letter to it. I can't tell from the attached report but expect that if all you've got is the one drive, and IF it was partitioned normally by Windows, you'll have C: as the primary active boot partition, followed by D and E in the logical extended partitions.

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#19 of 28

     Posted Nov-10 4:42 AM   
Roy Longbottom
 
From  Roy Longbottom  Posts 166  Last Nov-21
To  groucho      [Msg # 164721.19 Message 164721.19 replying to 164721.18 164721.18 ]    

> C: as the primary active boot partition, followed by D and E in the logical extended partitions.<

It is now but was C:, E:, D: to start with.

Roy

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#20 of 28

     Posted Nov-10 9:21 AM   
John in Detroit
 
From  John in Detroit  Posts 3237  Last Nov-21
To  groucho      [Msg # 164721.20 Message 164721.20 replying to 164721.15 164721.15 ]    
I have used two methods when I went from a computer with multiple drives to one with fewer drives.... One method was the dos-assign drive letter to path command (It has been far too long)  What I did.. Well I'll tell you exactly what I did.

The old computer had A,B,C,D and E drives (E was a zip-100 as I recall)

The new computer had only A/B C and D (A and B are same drive)

I put a directory on C: called ECOLON (E:) and assigned E: to ECOLON)

The other thing you can do is partation the drive so you do in deed have the drive you wish (F in your case) as a real, physical, drive (part of the main hard drive)  I considered this method but decided I liked the flexibility of re-assigning it to a sub folder instead of a sub-partation.
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply
 Subscribe SubscribeCreate Poll Create PollGet a printer-friendly version of this discussion Print Discussion 
Hard Drives

Windows 7 Slow Disk

  
 
     

Welcome, Guest

  • Post a message
  • New messages to you
  • Log in

Start Search
Advanced Search

Prospero Blocks
 
 
 
Special Offers
 
 
 

Finding People

 
 
 

Cool Clicks!

 
 
 
© 2009 CompuServe Interactive Services, Inc. All rights reserved.

Legal Notices | Privacy Policy