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Message Area
Networking

Losing network sharing

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#1 of 20

     Posted Nov-4 2:30 PM   
John Buchanan
 
From  John Buchanan  Posts 12  Last Nov-9
To  All      [Msg # 196184.1 ]    

Hi

I have 2 Dell Inspiron PCs connected to a Netgear DG834 Broadband router. One PC is wired to the router, the other is on wireless. The PC which is wired is set up to share disk space and printer. It is running XP SP3.

The PC which is wireless is connected using a Belkin 54g Wireless USB adapter. The PC is running Visa Home Premium SP2. I have mapped drive letter "M" to the shared disk space on the XP PC, and mapped the printer on the XP PC to be recognised on the Vista PC.

Both PCs are powered off overnight.

So far so good. However, I experience some problems. Most days the XP PC is started first, then the Vista PC. Sometimes, but not every time the Vista PC fails to connect via wireless to the router, so no network service is available. In these cases, the PC cannot connect to the Internet, and can't see the XP PC to access the shared disk space or printer. Two forms of corrective action have been found to be effective. (a) restart the PC and hope it works this time, it usually does. (b) safely remove the USB Wireless adapter, then insert it again, and hope that the network initialisation will configure everything as needed. It usually does.

I would prefer not to have to perform either of these corrective actions.

Having got a successful network connection by one means or another, a further problem can occur. While remaining connected to the router and the Internet, connection is lost from the Vista PC to the XP PC with its shared space and printer. Attempts result in the message "this resource is no longer available". See attached. Remedial action as in (a) and (b) above have been known to work.

But this is particularly irritating, if it happens when a scheduled back up job to transfer files from the Vista PC to the XP PC is due, because the backup job fails, and has to be restarted manually.

A third mysterious event occurs if I decide, having lost shared disk access, to shut down the Vista PC. The "Logging Off" screen comes on, and stays for ever. I have even left it overnight. PC does not shutdown. I have discovered that by unsafely removing the USB wireless adapter under these conditions, the PC immediately proceeds to "Shutting Down" and shuts down!

I have describe the symptoms. Can anyone suggest the cause or some permanent corrective action?

John


Attachments
Name:   networkfailed.jpgSize:   17 K
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#2 of 20

     Posted Nov-4 2:57 PM   
Jerry Lippey/WUGNET
 
From  Jerry Lippey/WUGNET  Posts 9231  Last 1:01 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.2 Message 196184.2 replying to 196184.1 196184.1 ]    

Windows Vista's wireless is often problematic, John.

First verify that the router is okay. There may be a firmware update.

   Internet Connectivity Evaluation Tool

And see the suggestions here.

   Vista: Common Problems with 802.11 Wireless

-Jerry
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#3 of 20

     Posted Nov-4 3:29 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12679  Last 7:18 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.3 Message 196184.3 replying to 196184.1 196184.1 ]    

>>Sometimes, but not every time the Vista PC fails to connect via wireless to the router,

Try a different adapter, it sounds like the one on the Vists machine is flakey...

 

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#4 of 20

     Posted Nov-4 3:57 PM   
Conrad K.
 
From  Conrad K.  Posts 5039  Last 7:03 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.4 Message 196184.4 replying to 196184.1 196184.1 ]    

>>  <<

John...  I haven't put my finger on it exactly, but my niece's Vista laptop also has problems at times connecting to my home network wirelessly.  Her computer is upstairs from my router.  My own wireless Vista laptop which is downstairs, has no problems connecting.  Bringing my niece's laptop downstairs doesn't make a difference.  Hence, it has to be in the laptop, per se.

This problem connecting for my niece's laptop may go on for a while but then clears up all by itself.  I did stumble onto a workaround, though.  My router is normally set to stealth mode.  That is to say, I have the SSID broadcast disabled.  I found that if I turn SSID broadcast ON, then my niece's laptop will connect.  After a while, I'll turn SSID broadcast OFF again and the laptop can still connect.  Hence, I'm guessing that it's RF interference that keeps the laptop from finding the router at certain times.

I guess I should add that this problem doesn't occur very often for my niece.  Most of the time, everything works just fine with SSID broadcast enabled on the router.  Only every so often does the connection go flakey.

Good Luck!..  connie

P.S.  My comments assume that you have wireless security enabled. If your wireless is unsecured, then my comments do not apply since no special security protocols are needed to connect...  connie




Edited Nov-4   by  Conrad K.
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#5 of 20

     Posted Nov-5 9:18 AM   
John Buchanan
 
From  John Buchanan  Posts 12  Last Nov-9
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 196184.5 Message 196184.5 replying to 196184.3 196184.3 ]    

Thanks guys

On the well known principle to only change one thing at a time, I have changed the adapter to a Netgear WG111v2 which was previously on my W2K PC which I decommissioned when I got the Vista PC. (I had both running during the handover, hence the Belkin on one and Netgear on the other.)

There is a firmware upgrade for the router, I downloaded it back in April, but have not yet installed it, as the current firmware seemed OK.

I'll run for a while with the Netgear wireless adapter, and if problems continue, I'l have a go at upgrading the router.

John

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#6 of 20

     Posted Nov-6 4:53 AM   
John Buchanan
 
From  John Buchanan  Posts 12  Last Nov-9
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 196184.6 Message 196184.6 replying to 196184.3 196184.3 ]    

Hello again

Still using the Netgear wireless adapter. I have noticed that it doesn't attempt to make the network connection until I log on as a user. Before the wireless connection is made, Vista reports that it is unable to connect my network drive. Of course, by the time I look at the network drive status, wireless is connected and network drive is mapped.

Would there be a way to get the wireless adapter to establish its connection before user log on?

John

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#7 of 20

     Posted Nov-6 9:39 AM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12679  Last 7:18 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.7 Message 196184.7 replying to 196184.6 196184.6 ]    

Perhaps it's a matter of timing?  Delay logging on for a moment and see if that makes a differemce...

 

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#8 of 20

     Posted Nov-6 2:34 PM   
John Buchanan
 
From  John Buchanan  Posts 12  Last Nov-9
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 196184.8 Message 196184.8 replying to 196184.7 196184.7 ]    

Hi

I tried that.

But I can see the Netgear systray icon come on RED, then the warning about disconnected network drive, then the Netgear icon changes to GREEN. I click the network disconnected warning bubble and, lo and behold, the network drive is there!

If I log off, and log on again, process is repeated!

It seems Netgear wireless is only connected when user logs on!

John

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#9 of 20

     Posted Nov-6 3:35 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12679  Last 7:18 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.9 Message 196184.9 replying to 196184.8 196184.8 ]    

You are confusing the Network share and the Lan interface.  I have a client with a shared server where many machines map a drive letter to the server.  Occasionally, we see the same issue, even on hard-wired connections...

This is with a "persistent" mapping, no less...

Remember:  mapping is on a "per user" basis - very different than the LAN connection...

 

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#10 of 20

     Posted Nov-7 3:21 AM   
John Buchanan
 
From  John Buchanan  Posts 12  Last Nov-9
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 196184.10 Message 196184.10 replying to 196184.9 196184.9 ]    

Hello Dale

Thank you for that clarification. It seems to me that the Netgear Wireless USB is also behaving as if it was user dependent.

To test this theory, with the XP PC wired to the router already on, I switched on the Vista PC with the Netgear wireless adapter, and it came to the log on screen awaiting choice of user and entry of password. The blue light on the Netgear wireless adapter was flashing.

Using the XP PC I then accessed the Netgear router and looked at the list of attached devices. Only the XP PC itself was listed. I then logged on to the Vista PC, and on the XP PC refreshed the attached devices list. The Vista PC was now listed.

This thread started because I was getting intermittent network connection problems with my Belkin wireless USB adapter, but I think that on startup, it either worked, and made the wireless connection before user log on, or didn't work. The Netgear device seems to have produced a different phenomenon!

Any further comments?

John

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#11 of 20

     Posted Nov-7 12:23 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12679  Last 7:18 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.11 Message 196184.11 replying to 196184.10 196184.10 ]    

>>Any further comments?

Yep.  Separate the two processes...

The Netgear one works consistently, while the Belkin one kept dropping connections durng a sessiom, correct?

That demonstrates the Belkin adapter was flakey and should not be used...

The rest of your observations are just how Windows works...

 

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#12 of 20

     Posted Nov-7 4:51 PM   
John Buchanan
 
From  John Buchanan  Posts 12  Last Nov-9
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 196184.12 Message 196184.12 replying to 196184.11 196184.11 ]    

Thanks Dale

I've posted a support request on Netgear's website, asking why the wireless adapter behaves like a user device, not a system device. I registered my router and adapter when I bought them 3 years ago, so I am at least a recognised customer.

I wonder if they'll reply.....

John

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#13 of 20

     Posted Nov-7 6:53 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12679  Last 7:18 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.13 Message 196184.13 replying to 196184.12 196184.12 ]    

XP is what is doing this, not the Wireless device...

>>I wonder if they'll reply.....

With "meeaningful" information...

 

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#14 of 20

     Posted Nov-9 8:34 AM   
John Buchanan
 
From  John Buchanan  Posts 12  Last Nov-9
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 196184.14 Message 196184.14 replying to 196184.13 196184.13 ]    

Hello again

Netgear support are trying to help me. This is waht they have said so far:

======================================================
After reviewing the information that you provided, I think I have a better understanding of your issue. Here are some troubleshooting steps that I suggest you try:

Follow the steps given below for your Vista system:

Click Start, type gpedit.msc in the Start Search or Run dialog box and press Enter.

Now navigate to the following location:

Local Computer Policy > Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > System > Logon

logon

Set Hide entry points for Fast User Switching to Not configured for enabling Fast User Switching.

We hope that the steps provided above would help resolve the problem/case. Please feel free to contact us again if you will require further assistance.
=======================================================

He is obviously trying to get me to enable "Fast User Switching". The problem is that Vista Home Premium does not include the program gpedit.msc. He gave me these instructions in the knowledge that I was using Vista Home Premium. I have pointed this out to him and am awaiting further advice!

Meanwhile I have looked in my Registry, and suspect that "Hide entry points for Fast User Switching" is already "Not configured".

John

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#15 of 20

     Posted Nov-9 11:24 AM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12679  Last 7:18 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.15 Message 196184.15 replying to 196184.14 196184.14 ]    

Problem is, you do not have access to the Group Police Editor in the Home versions of Windows...

Fast User Switching is enabled by default and I wonder why their stuff does not work with "Windows, out of the box"???

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/89939-fast-user-switching.html

has info on the Registry edit required for Home, but I habe to ask:  WHY should that be necessary???

 

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#16 of 20

     Posted Nov-9 1:54 PM   
John Buchanan
 
From  John Buchanan  Posts 12  Last Nov-9
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 196184.16 Message 196184.16 replying to 196184.15 196184.15 ]    

Hello Dale

It is obvious that I have "Fast User Switching" enabled. I have 2 users defined, one of which is an administrator. I am both users, one way for my personal stuff, other user for business related stuff.
I can switch between them, with them both logged on. Netgear wireless happily operates. Having logged onto one, then switch and log onto the other, no problem finding the network drive because wireless is already active.
But log off both users, and it closes down the wireless connection too, so that next time one logs on there is the irritating delay and warning message.
This is beginning to take up more time and effort than the irritation justifies.

I just had a look in msconfig "Startup" tab, and I notice that the method to start the Netgear software is to invoke it from C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup

Maybe this is why it doesn't run unless a user is logged on.

I've put up with enough foibles on my PCs since I put my first Windows PC in my home in 1995, and connected to the Internet at 9600 baud. I guess I'll just have to put up with this one!

John

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#17 of 20

     Posted Nov-9 3:49 PM   
Jerry Lippey/WUGNET
 
From  Jerry Lippey/WUGNET  Posts 9231  Last 1:01 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.17 Message 196184.17 replying to 196184.16 196184.16 ]    (Unread)

1. One way is to run it as a service. There's a description here of setting up a mail server as a service In Windows Server 2008 (also NT 6.0 like Vista).

   Running Mecury Mail as a Service

2, Another (easier) way is to have Task Scheduler (taskschd.msc) start it. Set the Trigger to At Startup.

   Task Scheduler Triggers

-Jerry
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#18 of 20

     Posted Nov-9 4:38 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12679  Last 7:18 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.18 Message 196184.18 replying to 196184.16 196184.16 ]    

>>Maybe this is why it doesn't run unless a user is logged on.

All that is is the indicator icon in the system tray - that is not the actual adapter connection...

What you descrive I see all the time on wirelecc connections and occasionally on wired ones - what leads you to perceive this as a "problem" (as opposed to an annoyance)?

Yep, that's just Windows doing Windows (spoken as a true Dodger fan)...

 

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#19 of 20

     Posted Nov-9 4:54 PM   
John Buchanan
 
From  John Buchanan  Posts 12  Last Nov-9
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 196184.19 Message 196184.19 replying to 196184.18 196184.18 ]    

Hi Dale

It's an annoyance. At least the Netgear USB adapter doesn't seem to lose connectivity the way the Belkin did.

I decommissioned a 7 years old W2K PC of doubtful parentage which I had been using with this Netgear wireless adapter for 3 years, and which always made the wireless connection before I logged on as a user, and installed this brand spanking new all singing all dancing Vista PC, and it seems that I have made a retrograde step, at least as far as network connectivity is concerned.

As you say just Windows being Windows, doing its best to prevent users doing what they want to do.

So now I have to put up with two warnings every time I log on. Network drive not connected as well as user account control turned off. All I need to find now is the place to turn off the warnings!

Thanks for all your helpful advice. In 1995 I was bona fide Compuserve Classic user, and I stuck with it for quite a long time, but now I log on with a AOL screen name. I still find these forums helpful from time to time.

John

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#20 of 20

     Posted Nov-9 5:15 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 12679  Last 7:18 PM
To  John Buchanan      [Msg # 196184.20 Message 196184.20 replying to 196184.19 196184.19 ]    (Unread)

Open up Security Center and check the links on the left side to tell UAC to mind it's own business...

Another fix I tried was adding a Net Use command to Startup to force the share anyway.  That may resolve the other annoyance...

 

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Networking

Losing network sharing

  
 
     

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