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Message Area
Vista/Windows 7 Discussions

Win 7 networking & sleep & Firefox

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#1 of 103

     Posted Nov-7 3:57 AM   
richrdorser
 
From  richrdorser  Posts 190  Last 8:48 PM
To  All      [Msg # 193151.1 ]    
Friends,
I am getting my new computer with Win 7 up and going.  I have a few questions I hope you will be able to answer:

  • Why does Win 7 keep wanting to run FireFox in Safe Mode?

  • Could anything I have done at my new computer changed something so that my Vista computer  can no longer access the internet?  I can't see it in the Win 7 machine as part of my network.  All 3 puters are connected via a router.

  • Why can I not access Documents & Settings?

  • I am using a small ( 80GB ) SSD for programs.  I want all of my documents and data (with the exception of outlook.pst) to reside on my I drive ( large platter drive).  Must I do anything special to accomplish this other than to point programs there for data saving when I am given the option to do so?
Gratefully, Richard

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#2 of 103

     Posted Nov-7 12:44 PM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9147  Last 10:11 PM
To  richrdorser      [Msg # 193151.2 Message 193151.2 replying to 193151.1 193151.1 ]    

What does Firefox have to do with Networking???

I only tested Firefox on Windows 7 once and I did not observe any issues - what specifically happens?

An Internet connection and LAN traffic are very different.  Any Software Firewalls involved?  Those often get in the way of the LAN...

Documents and Settings is a "Junction Point" in Windows 7 - the folder is now "Users"...

>> Must I do anything special to accomplish this other than to point programs there for data saving when I am given the option to do so?

Yes.  You have to manually change things in many apps and there may be some things you can not change as they reference \Application Data branch (Outlook and FireFox profiles come to mind)...

 

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#3 of 103

     Posted Nov-8 12:09 AM   
richrdorser
 
From  richrdorser  Posts 190  Last 8:48 PM
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 193151.3 Message 193151.3 replying to 193151.2 193151.2 ]    

What does Firefox have to do with Networking???

Nothing.  Networking is only one of my questions.

I only tested Firefox on Windows 7 once and I did not observe any issues - what specifically happens?

When I start up Firefox, Windows tells me it has to start it in Safe Mode.  i will get the details.

An Internet connection and LAN traffic are very different.  Any Software Firewalls involved?  Those often get in the way of the LAN...

Because I use a router, I have disabled my AV firewall on all 3 computers.  BTW, I was asked for a network password.  But, I have never had one.  What is that all about?

Documents and Settings is a "Junction Point" in Windows 7 - the folder is now "Users"...

What is a Junction Point?  Is that like a shortcut?  Speaking of Users, I renamed one of the users, but when I look in Users, I see the old name.  If I Switch Users, I am offered the new name. I don't like that.  Is there some way to fix this?

>> Must I do anything special to accomplish this other than to point programs there for data saving when I am given the option to do so?

Yes.  You have to manually change things in many apps and there may be some things you can not change as they reference \Application Data branch (Outlook and FireFox profiles come to mind)...

Well, I can live with that.  I want all of Outlook on the SSD any way.  I was really wondering if I need to set anything in Win 7 as to a default as to which drive to use for data.

Any idea why I am not given the hibernation option when I press the Shift key?  Are these puters so energy efficient now that Sleep is the way to go?  How does one activate Hibernation.  I can't seem to find it in Win 7.  I have two buttons on the front of my Sonata III case.  The power button and one recessed one with a triangle symbol.  What is that 2nd button for?  Can't find an answer on their web site.


Thanks, R

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#4 of 103

     Posted Nov-8 12:40 AM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9147  Last 10:11 PM
To  richrdorser      [Msg # 193151.4 Message 193151.4 replying to 193151.3 193151.3 ]    

Subject said "Networking" - no fair starting with a non-qualifying question...  ;-)

>>I have disabled my AV firewall on all 3 computers.

UNINSTALL, do not just disable third party firewalls...

>>I was asked for a network password

When doing what?  If processing e-mail. that means the e-mail client is not communicating with the mail server and you need to "check the remember" box before clicking "OK" otherwise that will keep coming up...

>>What is a Junction Point?

Smoke and mirrors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_junction_point

It's used for legacy support...

>> I renamed one of the users

That does NOT change the underlying folder structure already created for that user, just the "presentation label"...

You would have to create a NEW user and copy the profile to it, if you consider that a "problem"...

You can not set Win 7 to another drive as the default...

Windows 7 uses Sleep - step 1 is to write things out to the hibernate file AND retain them in  Memory and go into a low-power state and if no activity, then Wtep 2, turn off.  It's called "hybrid sleep"...

>>What is that 2nd button for?

Generally, the other button is a Reset button on a case.  You used Dell systems before that never included a Reset button.  Reset is preferred to Power Off if a system is hung and needs restarting...

 

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#5 of 103

     Posted Nov-8 4:46 PM   
richrdorser
 
From  richrdorser  Posts 190  Last 8:48 PM
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 193151.5 Message 193151.5 replying to 193151.4 193151.4 ]    
>>Subject said "Networking" - no fair starting with a non-qualifying question...  ;-)<<
OK, then let's get back to networking.  I found the problem of why I could not access the internet on the Vista machine.  There is an icon in the lower right of my task bar, and when I moused over it, it said I had blocked the internet or network.  I guess I clicked it by mistake.  That got the internet working on the Vista machine, but I can still not see it on my new Win 7 machine. 

I can see 1 of the two computers (the XP one), but not the Office Vista one.  "Windows cannot access \\Office"  Diagnose comes up with nothing.  What is the next step Dale?

So, you are saying there is no longer a Hibernate option in Win 7, just the 2 step Sleep option?

R
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#6 of 103

     Posted Nov-8 5:37 PM   
earle robinson
 
From  earle robinson  Posts 530  Last 5:20 AM
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 193151.6 Message 193151.6 replying to 193151.4 193151.4 ]    
On my systems there is hibernation, but not hybrid sleep as far as I can tell. Vista did use that but it doesn't seem to be used under win7.


-er
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#7 of 103

     Posted Nov-8 6:37 PM   
richrdorser
 
From  richrdorser  Posts 190  Last 8:48 PM
To  earle robinson      [Msg # 193151.7 Message 193151.7 replying to 193151.6 193151.6 ]    
So, guys, Mozy backup requires me to save a file into one of their folders in Program Files.  But Win 7 says that I do not have permission.  Well, then, who the hell does?  Bill Gates?
R
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#8 of 103

     Posted Nov-8 6:44 PM   
Sandy G/WinSupport
 
From  Sandy G/WinSupport  Posts 123  Last 8:35 PM
To  earle robinson      [Msg # 193151.8 Message 193151.8 replying to 193151.6 193151.6 ]    

Looking up Help for Hibernate complicates the issue even more.

We were told that Windows 7 would offer a hybrid of hibernate and sleep. Set the system down for a nap as usual, but if it didn't wake in time the system would hibernate the way we associated with XP.

I see no settings for Sleep or Hibernate beyond wake timers.

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#9 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 12:18 AM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9147  Last 10:11 PM
To  richrdorser      [Msg # 193151.9 Message 193151.9 replying to 193151.5 193151.5 ]    

>>That got the internet working on the Vista machine, but I can still not see it on my new Win 7 machine. 

Did you share something on the Vista system?  Vista introduced a new security model where certain folders (Root of C:, \Program Files, \Windows) are off-limits over the Lan...

You have to run through the items in Network and Sharing Center and check permissions, passwords, etc.  By default, everything is "locked down"...

>>So, you are saying there is no longer a Hibernate option in Win 7, just the 2 step Sleep option?

It got re-named...

 

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#10 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 12:19 AM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9147  Last 10:11 PM
To  earle robinson      [Msg # 193151.10 Message 193151.10 replying to 193151.6 193151.6 ]    

I see hybrid sleep, not hibernamtion listed in the sleep options...

 

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#11 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 12:22 AM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9147  Last 10:11 PM
To  richrdorser      [Msg # 193151.11 Message 193151.11 replying to 193151.7 193151.7 ]    

>>Mozy backup requires me to save a file into one of their folders in Program Files

Mozy needs a Windows 7 version - what they are doing is not allowed in Windows 7...

 

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#12 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 1:19 AM   
richrdorser
 
From  richrdorser  Posts 190  Last 8:48 PM
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 193151.12 Message 193151.12 replying to 193151.11 193151.11 ]    
My question really has nothing to do with Mozy.  I just mean that I am not allowed to access folders in the Program Files.  I think that the problem was that I was trying to save a txt file directly from an e-mail into a Program Files sub-folder by right clicking it Save As.  When I copied it to the desktop first, then I could save it to the sub-folder.

Is there a difference in the admin. privileges between Owner (the default User/administrator) and the User I created as "Richard" and set as an administrator?

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#13 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 1:24 AM   
richrdorser
 
From  richrdorser  Posts 190  Last 8:48 PM
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 193151.13 Message 193151.13 replying to 193151.9 193151.9 ]    
>>Did you share something on the Vista system?  Vista introduced a new security model where certain folders (Root of C:, \Program Files, \Windows) are off-limits over the Lan...<<

I should clarify.  I had a perfectly functioning peer-to-peer LAN with 3 computers.  Everything was shared to everybody.  Then, I replace one compter, an XP machine with a new Win 7 (PC Buzz) computer.  Now I cannot connect to the Vista machine.  I have changed nothing on the Vista computer.  Everything, I believe, is still set as fully shared with Everyone.
I CAN see my wife's XP machine.  And, for a short period of time I was able to access the Vista machine that I can no longer see.
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#14 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 2:15 AM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9147  Last 10:11 PM
To  richrdorser      [Msg # 193151.14 Message 193151.14 replying to 193151.12 193151.12 ]    

>>Is there a difference in the admin. privileges between Owner (the default User/administrator) and the User I created as "Richard" and set as an administrator?

No...

All users run at lower privilidges unless explicitly requested to elevate (what MS mis-labeled as "Run as Administrator"...

The Security Template is very rigid and remember that with 64 bit Windows, there are TWO Program Files folders, one for 32 bit programs and another for 64 bit programs...

 

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#15 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 2:19 AM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9147  Last 10:11 PM
To  richrdorser      [Msg # 193151.15 Message 193151.15 replying to 193151.13 193151.13 ]    

>>an XP machine with a new Win 7 (PC Buzz) computer

That "removed" the everything shared by everyone because Windows 7 does not allow that...

>>Now I cannot connect to the Vista machine

From which system(s)?

>>Everything, I believe, is still set as fully shared with Everyone.

As I mentioned earlier, Vista/Windows 7 do not allow that, even if you explicitly set the Permissions to allow that...

Dis you manually alter any settings on Windows 7?  If not, all, it will show is the "Public" stuff and will require Uase/Password info to access...

 

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#16 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 5:45 AM   
earle robinson
 
From  earle robinson  Posts 530  Last 5:20 AM
To  Sandy G/WinSupport      [Msg # 193151.16 Message 193151.16 replying to 193151.8 193151.8 ]    
I have:

Switch user
Log off
Lock
Restart
Sleep
Hibernate

What is called hybrid sleep was offered by Vista, though I noticed it was more likely to be found on laptops than desktops. It all depends on the system's own firmware.
Type powercfg ?  to see the options available and how to manipulate all this.

Type powercfg -a to see what sleep states are available on your system. On the one at which I am working at this moment this is what I get:

[r:\]powercfg -a                                                               
The following sleep states are available on this system: Standby ( S1 )  Hibernate    
The following sleep states are not available on this system:           
Standby (S2)                    The system firmware does not support this standby state.                Standby (S3)                    The system firmware does not support this standby state.                Hybrid Sleep                      

You can enable or disable hibernation with the -h switch on/off.                                            


-er
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#17 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 5:46 AM   
earle robinson
 
From  earle robinson  Posts 530  Last 5:20 AM
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 193151.17 Message 193151.17 replying to 193151.10 193151.10 ]    
See my earlier message. Use powercfg to learn which sleep states are available. You can enable or disable hibernation with this command as follows: powercfg -h on/off.


-er
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#18 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 11:47 AM   
Sandy G/WinSupport
 
From  Sandy G/WinSupport  Posts 123  Last 8:35 PM
To  earle robinson      [Msg # 193151.18 Message 193151.18 replying to 193151.16 193151.16 ]    

That's nasty,

>>The following sleep states are not available on this system: <<

and then it lists everything. It's sad that one must know secret handshakes to get the information Power Options should offer.

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#19 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 1:03 PM   
earle robinson
 
From  earle robinson  Posts 530  Last 5:20 AM
To  Sandy G/WinSupport      [Msg # 193151.19 Message 193151.19 replying to 193151.18 193151.18 ]    
For the vast majority all this isn't important. Typically, they log out and turn off the computer. Those with laptops might use sleep or hibernation for obvious reasons. The command line command is something that it people use in large and medium sized companies.


-er
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#20 of 103

     Posted Nov-9 3:25 PM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1329  Last 8:01 PM
To  richrdorser      [Msg # 193151.20 Message 193151.20 replying to 193151.1 193151.1 ]    

It might be easier to follow & fix things under the old maxim of "Divide and Conquer", i.e. run a separate thread for each of these questions.

IIRC Win7 uses a different default workgroup name and some small but critical differences in how it handles network setups. Small enough and critical enough that you'd want to look that up and copy them down.

The changes are supposed to make networking simpler and safer. Sounds like a Mac commercial, doesn't it?

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Vista/Windows 7 Discussions

Win 7 networking & sleep & Firefox

  
 
     

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