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Final Rewrites How-To?

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#1 of 45 Posted Oct-31 5:36 AM

From Patricia Fuller Posts 138 Last Nov-18
To All [Msg # 65679.1 ]

Hi All,

I'm pleased to report that I've finished my second draft of Through the Fire (its working title, aka Marek & Sebastian) but at the same time, I'm slightly horrified. I just took a word count and found that what I originally thought was a nice compact book with a nice compact plot, actually turns out to be a staggering 230,000 words (which surprises the heck out of me because it just doesn't feel that long).

Length is not something I'm going to worry about right now because if I go into the final rewrites with the intention of knocking out fifty or eighty or a hundred thousand words, it will never get edited, and when next you see me, I'll be dancing down the street in a Saran-wrap dress singing, "I'm a Little Teapot, Short and Stout".

I'd rather have a well-written and intriguing finished product, whatever its length. Toward that end, my question:

How do you go about doing the final rewrite on such a big book?

I don't want to go through the thing chapter by chapter, in order, trying to fix everything all at once because I find I bog down about four chapters in and my brain goes numb. There has to be a better way.

Anyone have any good suggestions?

Thanks & cheers,
Patricia

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#2 of 45 Posted Oct-31 7:25 AM

From Esmeann Posts 1022 Last 7:17 PM
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.2 65679.1 ]

Hi Patricia,

don't have any clever editing ideas (at least right now), but wanted to say congratulations on finishing your 2nd draft. I would suggest taking a wee break, get a little teapot and make your self a nice cup of tea - Earl Grey maybe <s>.

Going away singing.... ' here is my handle, here is my spout.....'

Esmé

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#3 of 45 Posted Oct-31 3:55 PM

From rwodaski Posts 1689 Last 10:05 AM
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.3 65679.1 ]

That Saran-wrap vision was a bit distracting. <g> There were a lot of versions I could have gone with in my imagination, but I went for the funny one. I think if you do go that route, you should use the Saran wrap to lock your arms into a nice teapot-ish position for best effect. You should also consider some sort of tin lid on your head, held on with a Saran-wrap chin strap. (Just suggestions; the details of your madness must, of necessity, be your own...) ';--)

Most of my final rewrites involved non-fiction books, but I'm finding that I don't change it much for the novel. When I think of final rewrites, I think of focusing on it one chunk at a time, and only thinking about what's in front of me. I have to assume that by the point of final rewrites, I have a working structure and organization; what's important now is that things like flow, meaning, word choice, etc. are all good.

So I edit one chunk at a time. A chunk might be as small as a few sentences, or as large as a chapter. I hear you about getting bogged down; I have a mental game that I play which works for me. When I finish a chunk, I put it out of my mind, and I identify and edit the next chunk. I deliberately let go of each chunk when I'm done with it. I won't let myself start the next one until the pipes have been flushed. It's just something one learns to do, I think; there's no formula. Sometimes it takes until the next day; sometimes, a break to take a walk is good. Whatever works to set your mind adrift and make it ready for the next chunk.

If I find that I was wrong about my assumptions - e.g., major stuff has to be cut - I handle that before I start the final rewrite because, well, it's no longer the final rewrite. <g> If you think you will be cutting chunks out, then I would suggest you to do that first. Cutting is bound to create issues that can be dealt with quite nicely during final rewrite, such as messy transitions or fresh material that needs polish. On some level there are objective editorial choices to be made. Those should come before attempting a rewrite, otherwise you get pulled into doing things that can exhaust you, distract you, divert you, etc.

Final rewrite for me also does not include much copy editing, only what I stumble on; I'm just trying to make sure that the writing immediately around whatever point I'm at makes sense and works well. (I'm also a really terrible copy editor...)

Ron Wodaski
Dark Matters

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#4 of 45 Posted Oct-31 10:05 PM

From Patricia Fuller Posts 138 Last Nov-18
To Esmeann [Msg # 65679.4 65679.2 ]

Esme,

Thank you!

I am taking a wee break, but a very wee one (not like the month I took at the beginning of the summer), just long enough to figure out what to do next. Or not to figure it out but just do something, anything that pushes the book forward.

Tea sounds like a wonderful idea, especially since I do have some Earl Grey hanging around. =)

Cheers,
Patricia

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#5 of 45 Posted Nov-1 12:35 AM

From Lauri Posts 8769 Last 10:48 AM
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.5 65679.1 ]

Dear Patricia,

Congrats!

Well, you've got a lot of words to deal with. To start with, since you don't want to go through from beginning to end (without that, you cannot see where your threads may be out of order but you have to do it the way that it works for you), you need to work on the parts you know need work. For example, if you have favorite sections you like to re-read, those are good. But if there are sections you skim across, it's probably because you don't care for them as much. And if YOU don't like them, why should your readers? I've found my least favorite parts of the book are ones I need to work on.

I also read for redundancy. Sometimes my characters say basically the same thing in three different ways. I carve those down.

I read whole sections aloud or have Word's speech tool read my copy back to me. I catch lots of stuff that way.

I ended my draft of "Fugitive" at 110,000 words. After a few run-throughs, I hit 100,000. I think it's currently at around 98,000 words.

I also do my "beats" on index cards to make sure each scene flows into the next. This enables me to cut out whole sections. I may love them, but they don't belong in the story. I have to be brave and cut out those sections.

Not sure any of that will be of help to you, but there it is. *s*

/auri

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#6 of 45 Posted Nov-1 2:37 AM

From Patricia Fuller Posts 138 Last Nov-18
To rwodaski [Msg # 65679.6 65679.3 ]

Ron,

I hadn't thought of adding a lid! LOL

Dealing with major cuts first sounds like a sensible approach, since as you point out, when you cut, you have to stitch things back together. I don't think there will be any major (i.e., lengthy) cuts. As I think of the events that happen, they all seem to be necessary. None of them seem extraneous or weak to me, only ones that are a bit clumsy or bumpy. Still, you never know until you give the whole thing a read-through.

Focusing on one chunk at a time and "flushing" the mind after each one also sounds like a sensible approach. I'll try it.

Thanks!

Cheers,
Patricia

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#7 of 45 Posted Nov-1 9:05 AM

From Jennifer W. Posts 1107 Last Nov-15
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.7 65679.1 ]

Dear Patricia --

Congratulations! I'm glad you asked this question. I'll be reading this thread poised to take notes :-)

Jennifer

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#8 of 45 Posted Nov-1 9:25 AM

From Barbara Rogan Posts 1499 Last Nov-19
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.8 65679.1 ]

Hi Patricia,

I actually teach a course on that topic, based on what I learned from editing my own novels, so I'm full of good ideas! I agree that reading the book in sequence is not the way to go about it; you'll never see it with fresh eyes if you do that. I would start with the big picture stuff: structure first of all. Does the book's ending relate to its beginning? If not, you may have started in the wrong place. Does the book have the (arc) shape of a novel? I would suggest a separate reading of just the subplots: only the scenes relating to that particular subplot, to see if that too is nicely shaped and satisfactorily resolved, and to make sure that each one really contributes to the overall story. After that, I'd suggest looking at characterization---following each major character separately--and theme. Very often the book's theme only declares itself fairly in the course of the writing, so a second draft is the time to consciously hone what you created unconsciously. I'd suggest a separate reading of dialogue only. Only at the final stage would you look at the actual language of the novel, because there's no point doing a fine edit of material that may not make the cut at all.

230,000 is way too long, IMO, unless you've written WAR AND PEACE. A word count like that makes me suspect a lot of over-writing and repetition, and perhaps also an attempt to cram too many stories into a first novel, which happens a lot. But of course that's just a guess. If you'd like to see a more detailed description of the course I teach, check out this description. And if you or anyone else on the forum are interested in taking it, drop me a line. The next session will be in February 2010, and I'm always happy to have forumites in these workshops--in fact, I offer a discount to members of this forum.

Congratulations on finishing your draft!

Barbara
www.barbararogan.com

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#9 of 45 Posted Nov-1 7:27 PM

From Tom S. Posts 51 Last Nov-20
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.9 65679.1 ]

Patricia Fuller:

>>>I don't want to go through the thing chapter by chapter, in order, trying to fix everything all at once because I find I bog down about four chapters in and my brain goes numb. <<<

So take a break and do three or four more tomorrow. In the mean time do something else you enjoy. Read someone else's writing for while. Or something else totally unrelated.

Have a great new week,

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#10 of 45 Posted Nov-2 12:36 AM

From Patricia Fuller Posts 138 Last Nov-18
To Barbara Rogan [Msg # 65679.10 65679.8 ]

Barbara,

I like your way of organizing things --- big problems like structure first, then working your way to the smaller things (like word choice). So sensible!

>>230,000 is way too long<<

I completely agree. What's a reasonable word count figure, in your opinion (for a historical novel, which tend to run a bit longer)?

>>Does the book have the (arc) shape of a novel?<<

I'm not quite sure what that means. Could you explain? Do you mean like ECHO being shaped like a caltrop? Or something more general?

Thanks for chiming in! You've given me a lot to think about.<s>

Cheers,
Patricia

Edited Nov-2 by Patricia Fuller

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#11 of 45 Posted Nov-2 12:39 AM

From Patricia Fuller Posts 138 Last Nov-18
To Tom S. [Msg # 65679.11 65679.9 ]

Tom,

I probably didn't put that very well. I didn't mean doing large chunks of the rewrites in a condensed space of time, I meant doing many different functions (for instance straightening out plot, working on description, characterization, etc.) on the same editing pass through a scene/chapter/section/whatever. Too many different functions all going at once, I think. But taking breaks, as you've suggested, is always good, no matter how you revise something.

Cheers,
Patricia

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#12 of 45 Posted Nov-2 12:47 AM

From Patricia Fuller Posts 138 Last Nov-18
To Lauri [Msg # 65679.12 65679.5 ]

Lauri,

I didn't explain myself very well, I think. What I don't want to do is pull up chapter 1 and work on it until everything (characterization, plot, pacing, you-name-it) is "perfect", then chapter two, same thing, and so on. By chapter four, I'd be suffering brain-lock. <g>

I'm so glad you confirmed something I suspected --- that if I like reading a section, then it's probably good, but if I find myself skimming, that's where it needs work.

Doing a redundancy check is good too because I've already caught myself doing things like that, I'm sure there are more that have slipped through. I also find myself wording things longer than I need to. Just checking for those two things alone ought to cut out a fair-sized chunk of manuscript.

Can you explain what you mean by "beats"? It sounds like a great idea, but I want to make sure I understand it.

Thanks for jumping in! <s>

Cheers,
Patricia

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#13 of 45 Posted Nov-2 7:53 AM

From Barbara Rogan Posts 1499 Last Nov-19
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.13 65679.10 ]

Hi Patricia,

What's a reasonable word count figure, in your opinion (for a historical novel, which tend to run a bit longer)?

Not exactly my area, and there may be others here who can answer more precisely, but I think most agents groan at any novel over 500 ms. pages, which would be about 125,000-130,000 words. I do realize that this would eliminate Diana's books...but Diana's an exception in many ways. *s*

>>Does the book have the (arc) shape of a novel?<<

I'm not quite sure what that means. Could you explain? Do you mean like ECHO being shaped like a caltrop? Or something more general?

What is a caltrop???

I haven't had a chance yet to read ECHO, though I'm looking forward to it. But what I mean is that novels usually have a certain shape, regardless of the particular story. They start with an "inciting incident," the point where things start to change for the MC. They follow a line of rising tension, as things get more complicated and fraught. They peak at the climax of the book, which generally occur close to the end; and then they taper off with the denouement that explains everything or wraps the story up in some way. If you graphed the tension level in a novel, it would look like an arc.

Barbara
www.barbararogan.com

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#14 of 45 Posted Nov-2 9:01 AM

From denizb33 Posts 2870 Last 11:16 AM
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.14 65679.1 ]

Congratulations Patricia!

Any chance of posting a snip? I've missed Marek and Sebastian <g>

"I don't want to go through the thing chapter by chapter, in order, trying to fix everything all at once because I find I bog down about four chapters in and my brain goes numb."

This is exactly how I feel now that I have to type up all my handwritten scenes. I keep thinking, what if they suck? What if I start typing and realise it's not worth it? Yet if I force myself to sit down and do it, the story and the characters compel me, and then I realise all I have to do is keep tightening the writing until everyone else gets that same pull from the story.

With Austin's story I kept pretending I was dropping it, but found myself still immured in it, whether researching or tweaking bits here and there, or using it for exercises... It wasn't until I actually Put It Away for a good two months, and then came back to it, that I was able to read the entire thing and edit it properly, one last time. So if you haven't put your MS away for a while, I'd suggest doing that <g>

:-)

Deniz

http://thegirdleofmelian.blogspot.com/ and http://simplescarf.blogspot.com/

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#15 of 45 Posted Nov-2 10:26 AM

From Lauri Posts 8769 Last 10:48 AM
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.15 65679.12 ]

Dear Patricia,

"Beats" are the things that happen.

When re-reading, it's tough-- we are dizzied by our turns of phrases, the "good part" coming up and so on. We have to strip down to the bones. This is the "index card" method often mentioned in books.

You take a chapter and write out the beats, like Tv Guide descriptions. All you put down is what happens.

-- Ronald investigates a dead body. He notes the clown wig and rubber nose of the deceased. He meets with Detective Nosy to discuss the gold charm on a chain torn from the dead guy's neck. He takes a call from his wife who asks him to pick up milk at the store. Detective Nosy notes the circus left town two weeks before. Was the deceased part of the troupe? --

When you lay things out like this, you see what doesn't belong; in this case, the call from his wife. Yeah, it might be a clue but often, things not associated with the plot end up on the page.

I had a lovely scene between my two MCs that I loved. When I laid out all my chapters by beats, each index card chapters events, I found that the chapter I loved just did not belong in the story. I'd thought it a respite but it just dragged out a part of the story and halted momentum. It had to go.

I also found another chapter that was fine but needed to be moved earlier. Couldn't see that until I broke it down to the bones.

Works for me. It might work for you.

/auri

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#16 of 45 Posted Nov-2 4:35 PM

From Sheila Posts 634 Last 7:25 PM
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.16 65679.1 ]

Patricia,

Congratulations on finishing your second draft ! ! ! ! ! I've only read the beginning of your WIP but I loved the parts I did read. Hopefully I'll be at this point one day.

I don't have much to offer in the way of editing help, but just wanted to offer congrats and say......

"just tip me over and pour me out...'

Sheila

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#17 of 45 Posted Nov-3 3:50 AM

From Patricia Fuller Posts 138 Last Nov-18
To Barbara Rogan [Msg # 65679.17 65679.13 ]

Barbara,

A caltrop is that four-pronged object on the cover of ECHO. No matter which way it rests, one prong is always pointed up. It relates to the four major strands of the story (though I'm sure there's a much better explanation around here somewhere or on Diana's website).

Thank you for the wonderful explanation of "arc". And thankfully, my book follows that shape. (One less thing to worry about.)

Word count is a tricky business, so I can see why you wouldn't want to be too precise about it. Some genres are naturally longer than others, trends in publishing change acceptable word counts, and then there are always the exceptions.

Cheers,
Patricia

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#18 of 45 Posted Nov-3 4:03 AM

From Patricia Fuller Posts 138 Last Nov-18
To denizb33 [Msg # 65679.18 65679.14 ]

Hi Deniz,

Thank you! <s>

I wanted to join in on the October X, and the Snippets thread, but by the time I stumbled over them, it was way too late. So alas, no snippet opportunities at the moment. But I'll try and keep my eyes open for the next. And thank you so much for asking. =)

Hearing about how you work with your book (the handwritten scenes, the typing) makes me feel a little better. We all have our fears, don't we? <s> I realize some of my problem is just plain old confusion. I need an organized approach to that final rewrite. My writing brain likes organization --- lists, notes, files.... Everything marching along like baby ducklings. <g> Problem is, the creative process just isn't that neat. You can't alphabetize it or put it in chronological order. I'm sure I'll figure something out --- some sort of a priority will surface and then I'll start in.

Letting the book cool is so beneficial --- you're right! For instance, I haven't read the opening scene of the book in at least six months. But two nights ago, I did. I found I didn't have as much sympathy for "drunken Marek" as I originally did. I'm not sure what changes I'll make, if any, but I'm thinking about the scene and its impact differently.

How are things going with your Austin story these days?

Cheers,
Patricia

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#19 of 45 Posted Nov-3 9:50 AM

From Beth S/SL-Writing Biz Posts 9858 Last 2:53 PM
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.19 65679.1 ]

Patricia,

Start with the big stuff. Look for ways to tighten up the overall story by cutting or combining scenes and cutting or combining characters. Look closely at subplots. Do they support the main plot or are they independent digressions? Also look for ways to strengthen your main character(s). How badly do they want what they want? How clear are their motives? How far did you go to thwart them? Are the stakes high enough?

Look at the plot itself: are there reversals and setbacks? Is there a moment when the protag appears to lose everything and/or when the antagonist appears to win? Is there rising tension throughout the story? Look for plot holes, continuity errors, and credibility issues.

(Don Maass's Breakout Novel Workbook would probably be helpful in this process.)

When you've addressed all the major areas, then start working through the story scene by scene, line by line, increasing tension, eliminating excess, arranging flow, adding (or reducing) underpainting, sharpening the emotional impact.

Last thing, copy edit for word choice, typos, etc.

~Beth

Visit The Stone River

Edited Nov-7 by Beth S/SL-Writing Biz

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#20 of 45 Posted Nov-3 11:33 AM

From Kristen Callihan Posts 803 Last Nov-20
To Patricia Fuller [Msg # 65679.20 65679.1 ]

Hi Patricia,

First off -Congratulations!!! :) It's awesome to be done with that first draft, isn't it?

Now then, big books... sigh, I know all about writing big books (g). It seems I can't get one down in less than 500 pages. My first book, The Petal Falls (Molly and John book <g>), came in at 700pages and even my then agent couldn't figure out where to cut it. :-P The second book, West Club Moon, is 535 pages. Despite this fact, I did manage to hook a really, really good agent with book two (erm, I let agent one go for various reasons and had to go BACK on the query-go-round). Word count was never mentioned in either agent search, btw. I simply got them hooked on the story, sent the full, and hoped they would overlook the monstrous length. LOL. (Just to point out the fact that a high word count isn't the end of everything!)

Perhaps it's a personal taste thing; I love big books, hence I write big books. Shrug. And I resent the implication that because a book is long it is overwritten or redundant -in the end it is about pacing and plot. But unfortunately a lot of people (most importantly agents and editors) DO think that. And there is the simple truth that the business of publishing rarely allows debut writers to come out with really long books (The Historian notwithstanding) so you are mostly likely going to have to trim yours down a bit. At least to under 200k.

But that IS HARD! I liken editing a large book to wrestling an anaconda. See heads or tails of the thing is overwhelming and frustrating, no? (g)

You've gotten really good advice so far, so I'll add that for me, the only thing that really helped was to plot point the entire thing and make notes of tension arcs, story development and so on. Basically, you want to make a condensed version of the story so that you can see if there are places that run amok.

I remember asking for trimming advice early on and was told to tighten the language. I did but, really, this only goes so far. I could trim maybe 3k words with that technique. As much as it might hurt, the only way to truly cut down that high word count is to either take out a particular sub plot, cut a character, or eliminate scenes that are similar in nature (these usually being scenes I like to call "character development scenes" in which your two mc's are getting to know each other better). This requires major surgery, and won't be fun! This is also where a plot point, or web outline works best. You simply cannot see these problems by trying to read through the book.

Anyway, I wish you luck and am thrilled that you got the first draft done. Congrats again!

Kristen

All the World's Our Page

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