Tess,
>>John and Claire have at best had a tentative, at-arm's-length relationship with each other. That has certainly changed! They now share an intimacy (not talking about the sex) and a complete (naked) honesty with each other; a trusting friendship. I dare say Jamie is excluded in this, as John has always had to hide his feelings and control his emotions so as not to offend Jamie, but he has hidden nothing whatsoever from Claire. It seems that from this marriage experience the dotted line between John and Claire is now a solid line, and the triangle is complete. <<I really enjoyed your post. I realize that a lot of readers think this new relationship between John and Claire will ruin the friendship that John and Jamie have shared, but isn't it also possible that it could lead to a more open, honest and relaxed tie between them? Sure they all have to adjust to the shocks they have encountered but Jamie knows Claire's heart and how compassionate she is. He trusts her love for him and her instincts. If she now has a greater respect and affection for John, might not Jamie also? There are a lot of subjects that Jamie and John have never discussed but might benefit from airing. A deeping of their friendship, an open honesty between them would be far more interesting (to me at least) than a schism.
How will it actually happen? I don't know, but I think there are far more possibilities than we have been imagining.
summerdawn
Wynnleaf,
>>One thing about John and Jamie's friendship is that John has seemed to always be very careful of himself around Jamie. He feels that he's more himself around Jamie, because Jamie knows the truth about him. But on the other hand, he acts much more reserved around Jamie than would be typical of a close male friend, because he's so concerned that he not make Jamie uncomfortable.>>
This is exactly the type of behavior that might ease if they were to be completely honest with each other. John has walked on eggshells around Jamie for years. Has Jamie demanded that? Has John done this from an abundance of caution wanting to keep Jamie's friendship at all cost? I don't think that's clear.We've only been privy to one conversation between them about sexuality and that was not pleasant at all! But we also see that Jamie is able some time later to give John a kiss in friendship. We have no reason to believe they have ever discussed their experiences with rape. John has some knowledge that Jamie was raped but doesn't know any details. As far as we know Jamie is ignorant of John's experience. Other people have pointed out their many common traits and experiences they share ( a strong sense of honor, love of family, soldiering, etc...} but this is one very private trauma that if shared might bring them to a greater level of trust, understanding and friendship.
Allene
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<I feel sorry for him in that he will never feel the same level of comfort being in the same room with Jamie and/or Claire. It will always be between them. >
Allene,
I agree that it will be awkward for LJG. But I still feel sorry for what he's lost now that Jamie is back. He was not in love with Claire but he shared something special with her: transparency. While LJG has many people whom he considers close friends and trusts - his brother Hal, Harry Quarry, Jamie, William, etc. - to our knowledge he doesn't have a friend other than Claire who 1) knows he is gay, 2) knows he loves Jamie, and 3) is okay with #1 and #2 and is willing to discuss issues pertaining to #1 and #2. Of course Claire hasn't been thrilled in the past about either of these points, especially #2, but her comfort level with LJG has come a long way since they first met and she is willing to look past that now that she thinks Jamie is dead. I bet no one else knows that LJG has a physical relationship with his cook Manoke, but LJG can confide that in Claire. Now that Jamie is back, LJG will lose that ability to be transparent and sense of being himself that he can enjoy in Claire's presence since (I'm assuming) she won't be around anymore, and even if she were, LJG is hardly going to confide his feelings about Jamie to her.
RZ
Diana, RZ, Allene, et al,
I have felt a kind of devestation for John since finishing ECHO, because while Claire & Jamie have each other and nothing can keep them apart (i.e. their relationship will recover quickly), John has no one he can be completely himself with. He had that bond with Claire, but she has Jamie once again so doesn't "need" to turn to John. Now that Jamie is back from the dead, the damage to Jamie & John's friendship seems irrepairible. So in one fell swoop, he feels he has lost his greatest friend (Jamie has referred to him as so) and closest confidant (Claire).
Such was my distress, until I read Diana's post from Saturday. <<A committed relationship can overcome just about anything, given time, and a good will-and John's got one.>>
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it sounds like the friendship will survive. Hope so. The enduring friendship between John and Jamie and blossoming friendship of John and Claire is beautiful.
Even though John is surrounded by friends and family, he does not have that one "special" someone who completes him.
Diana, can John be happy in the next book please?? <beg>
Julie Funcannon
Julie,
>>> Diana, can John be happy in the next book please?? <<<
I couldn't agree with you more. And, if you've read through this and the John Grey questions thread, you'll know that we're not alone. I shared some of my thoughts on this topic in post #1183, and am hoping that Diana comes up with some totally unexpected way to provide John with his very own soul mate.
Sandy
