Democratic Forum       - A discussion forum for Democrats, liberals, and progressives    Bookmark and Share

     Go!
Prospero Blocks


 

Chat Center

The Coffee House
Topic: A Peaceful Place to Chat
The Soap Box
Topic: Politics

Board Folders

Today's Topic: 73972 msgs in 11645 dscns, Latest: 7:17 AMToday's Topic
73972 msgs in 11645 dscns
Latest: 7:17 AM
Obama Chronicles: 21316 msgs in 4403 dscns, Latest: Nov-20 Obama Chronicles
21316 msgs in 4403 dscns
Latest: Nov-20
Wars & World Affairs: 11868 msgs in 1014 dscns, Latest: Nov-20 Wars & World A...
11868 msgs in 1014 dscns
Latest: Nov-20
Elections - 2010: 18764 msgs in 1896 dscns, Latest: Oct-24 Elections - 2010
18764 msgs in 1896 dscns
Latest: Oct-24
Still the Economy !: 4789 msgs in 559 dscns, Latest: 2:00 AMStill the Econ...
4789 msgs in 559 dscns
Latest: 2:00 AM
Social Issues: 6344 msgs in 639 dscns, Latest: 5:24 AMSocial Issues
6344 msgs in 639 dscns
Latest: 5:24 AM
The Media: 7387 msgs in 985 dscns, Latest: Nov-20 The Media
7387 msgs in 985 dscns
Latest: Nov-20
Rights, States, Law: 12723 msgs in 697 dscns, Latest: 2:31 AMRights, States...
12723 msgs in 697 dscns
Latest: 2:31 AM
Party of NO !: 27415 msgs in 1381 dscns, Latest: 2:55 AMParty of NO !
27415 msgs in 1381 dscns
Latest: 2:55 AM
The Sandbox .: 5436 msgs in 354 dscns, Latest: 3:02 AMThe Sandbox .
5436 msgs in 354 dscns
Latest: 3:02 AM
Forum Announcements: -449 msgs in -185 dscns, Latest: Nov-17 Forum Announce...
-449 msgs in -185 dscns
Latest: Nov-17
Coffee Shop: 14943 msgs in 3148 dscns, Latest: Nov-20 Coffee Shop
14943 msgs in 3148 dscns
Latest: Nov-20
Message Area
Today's Topic

Dying to be heard

 Subscribe SubscribeGet a printer-friendly version of this discussion Print Discussion 

#1 of 27

     Posted Nov-5 2:00 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 1763  Last Nov-20
To  All      [Msg # 147875.1 ]    

C-SPAN coverage of the House of Representatives has shown Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) taking to the floor at night to read the names of  Americans who have died from lack of health insurance in Republican districts.   He plans to continue reading names and their personal stories to the nation. 

"Is it really asking too much of us that we keep people alive?" he asked.  "We can save these people, or we can let them die."

http://tinyurl.com/yl4oa5j

A procedural move by a Republican member led to an adjournment, but that didn't stop Rep. Grayson.  When the House reconvened he continued to name Republican House members and the dead in their districts.

Is he right to make health care so glaringly real??





Edited Nov-5   by  Jim1

Edited Nov-5   by  Jim1
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#2 of 27

     Posted Nov-5 2:14 PM   
Tobster E [Wizoptress]
 
From  Tobster E [Wizoptress]  Posts 5889  Last Nov-20
To  Jim1      [Msg # 147875.2 Message 147875.2 replying to 147875.1 147875.1 ]    

While Grayson goes too far sometimes, this isn’t one of them. The lawmakers in Washington are so into the politics of this legislation, and how to gain a partisan advantage, that they forget that there are real people who need this legislation. This is definitely a life and death issue, and the Critters in Washington need a reminder. Grayson is hitting them over the head with this, and personalizing it so that it just isn’t an abstract concept to them.

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#3 of 27

     Posted Nov-5 2:28 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 1763  Last Nov-20
To  Tobster E [Wizoptress]      [Msg # 147875.3 Message 147875.3 replying to 147875.2 147875.2 ]    
I appreciate he's making it so blunt that the Republicans are scrambling to dive for any possible cover on health care. 

Who wouldn't want to know that the Urban Institute has released figures on the number of uninsured in each Congressional district.   According to Grayson,  he cross-checked the names of Republicans who've pledged to block health coverage,  then he did the math.  The list starts:

"Alabama District 1, Congressman Jo Bonner, 114 dead."
"Alabama District 3, Congressman Mike Rogers, 88 dead."

Why would Republicans object to this information getting out to the nation?


 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#4 of 27

     Posted Nov-5 5:17 PM   
Tobster E [Wizoptress]
 
From  Tobster E [Wizoptress]  Posts 5889  Last Nov-20
To  Jim1      [Msg # 147875.4 Message 147875.4 replying to 147875.3 147875.3 ]    

>>Why would Republicans object to this information getting out to the nation?<<

Could it be that they don’t want anyone to hold them responsible for those deaths? This really personalizes the debate, and that the GOP really, really doesn’t want.

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#5 of 27

     Posted Nov-5 7:28 PM   
CEMJr
 
From  CEMJr  Posts 1059  Last 3:44 AM
To  Jim1      [Msg # 147875.5 Message 147875.5 replying to 147875.1 147875.1 ]    

Jim1-->>Is he right to make health care so glaringly real??

Lying in the well of Congress is making it glaringly real?


 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#6 of 27

     Posted Nov-5 9:37 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 1763  Last Nov-20
To  CEMJr      [Msg # 147875.6 Message 147875.6 replying to 147875.5 147875.5 ]    
<<Lying in the well of Congress is making it glaringly real?>>

Can you prove, with any actual facts,  Rep. Grayson's "lied"?



Edited Nov-5   by  Jim1
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#7 of 27

     Posted Nov-5 10:44 PM   
darichard122
 
From  darichard122  Posts 870  Last Nov-16
To  Jim1      [Msg # 147875.7 Message 147875.7 replying to 147875.1 147875.1 ]    
--Is he right to make health care so glaringly real??--

It's wrong to not make it glaringly real.
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#8 of 27

     Posted Nov-5 11:36 PM   
CEMJr
 
From  CEMJr  Posts 1059  Last 3:44 AM
To  Jim1      [Msg # 147875.8 Message 147875.8 replying to 147875.6 147875.6 ]    

Absent an actual name for each of these alleged deaths due a lack of medical insurance, every cited instance of deaths in a district is a lie.

 

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#9 of 27

     Posted Nov-7 8:43 AM   
Dave [Sysop]
 
From  Dave [Sysop]  Posts 16026  Last 1:25 AM
To  Jim1      [Msg # 147875.9 Message 147875.9 replying to 147875.1 147875.1 ]    
He is completely right.  The GOP deals in abstracts which is how they can talk about caring while doing their best to let people die.  Grayson is putting a name to stop the GOP hypocrisy.

 


Sarah Palin for 2012 - 2014 ½ :
When the going gets tough, quit.

Best political toons and jokes on the web.
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#10 of 27

     Posted Nov-7 1:24 PM   
Cal
 
From  Cal  Posts 67  Last Nov-20
To  CEMJr      [Msg # 147875.10 Message 147875.10 replying to 147875.8 147875.8 ]    

<< Absent an actual name for each of these alleged deaths due a lack of medical
insurance, every cited instance of deaths in a district is a lie. >>

I think Grayson's idea is brilliant -- naming Congresspeople and the number of
deaths in their districts caused by lack of medical care. We are in the 21st
Century. This shouldn't be happening anywhere in the world -- much less in our
country. It's an outright disgrace! Just give Grayson some time, he may yet come
up with the lists of names of those who died.

Only then some of the NeoConservatives might respond -- with remorse? Hardly! With
indignation? Perhaps.

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#11 of 27

     Posted Nov-7 1:30 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 1763  Last Nov-20
To  CEMJr      [Msg # 147875.11 Message 147875.11 replying to 147875.8 147875.8 ]    
<<Absent an actual name for each of these alleged deaths due a lack of medical insurance, every cited instance of deaths in a district is a lie.>>

No,  I asked you if you could prove he lied.   You didn't. 



Edited Nov-7   by  Jim1
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#12 of 27

     Posted Nov-7 1:31 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 1763  Last Nov-20
To  darichard122      [Msg # 147875.12 Message 147875.12 replying to 147875.7 147875.7 ]    (Unread)
<<It's wrong to not make it glaringly real. >>

I favor him naming every single Republican who fails to vote for health care then the Blue Democrats.
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#13 of 27

     Posted Nov-7 4:01 PM   
CEMJr
 
From  CEMJr  Posts 1059  Last 3:44 AM
To  Cal      [Msg # 147875.13 Message 147875.13 replying to 147875.10 147875.10 ]    

Cal-->>I think Grayson's idea is brilliant -- naming Congresspeople and the number of
deaths in their districts caused by lack of medical care.

What, no names to go along with the purported dead in a district? 

 

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#14 of 27

     Posted Nov-7 4:04 PM   
CEMJr
 
From  CEMJr  Posts 1059  Last 3:44 AM
To  Jim1      [Msg # 147875.14 Message 147875.14 replying to 147875.11 147875.11 ]    

Simple, the simple mathematics he cites is a lie.  National statistics are unuseable on a district by district basis. You, yourself know this, yet you were willing to nod your head and say ditto to what you know is a lie.

 

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#15 of 27

     Posted Nov-7 4:20 PM   
Cal
 
From  Cal  Posts 67  Last Nov-20
To  CEMJr      [Msg # 147875.15 Message 147875.15 replying to 147875.13 147875.13 ]    

<< What, no names to go along with the purported dead in a district? >>

He hasn't done it yet. But it would be a good idea if he would do it in
the future.

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#16 of 27

     Posted Nov-8 12:36 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 1763  Last Nov-20
To  CEMJr      [Msg # 147875.16 Message 147875.16 replying to 147875.14 147875.14 ]    
<<Simple,  the simple mathematics he cites is a lie.>>

If the information from the Urban Institute is a 'lie',   I'm sure you can explain, in detail,  how it is a 'lie'  because everyone should have the option to see how you come to your conclusion.

Then,  you can get in touch with the Urban Institute.   How's that sound?
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#17 of 27

     Posted Nov-8 5:52 PM   
CEMJr
 
From  CEMJr  Posts 1059  Last 3:44 AM
To  Jim1      [Msg # 147875.17 Message 147875.17 replying to 147875.16 147875.16 ]    

Jim-->>If the information from the Urban Institute is a 'lie',   I'm sure you can explain, in detail,  how it is a 'lie'  because everyone should have the option to see how you come to your conclusion.

Pay attention to detail and you will not lie about what I wrote.  What I said was that the simple mathematics used is not correct.  One can not take the national statistical information of a 16 year old study and apply it to a individual district in the here and now.  If a Republican tried doing such a thing, you would be charging the Republican with using fuzzy math!!!!

By the way, what did you think of the authors assumption on the living???

 


 

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#18 of 27

     Posted Nov-8 7:58 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 1763  Last Nov-20
To  CEMJr      [Msg # 147875.18 Message 147875.18 replying to 147875.17 147875.17 ]    
<<Pay attention to detail and you will not lie about what I wrote. >>

I asked you direct question,  you failed to respond that question with detailed information and you've failed to do it again.

<<What I said was the simple mathematics is not correct.>>

No,  you said Mr. Grayson was lying and have never addressed the mathematics of the Urban Institute.  

I'll ask again,  can you explain -- in detail -- why the Urban Institute's computations are incorrect?
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#19 of 27

     Posted Nov-8 10:33 PM   
CEMJr
 
From  CEMJr  Posts 1059  Last 3:44 AM
To  Jim1      [Msg # 147875.19 Message 147875.19 replying to 147875.18 147875.18 ]    

Jim-->>No,  you said Mr. Grayson was lying and have never addressed the mathematics of the Urban Institute. 

Since the Institute did not calculate on the basis of house districts, what is in question is Grayson's mathematical use of the Institute's findings at a district level.

Moreover, the suggestion that health care reform would greatly reduce the deaths due to the lack of medical insurance is spurious.

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#20 of 27

     Posted Nov-9 7:43 AM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 1763  Last Nov-20
To  CEMJr      [Msg # 147875.20 Message 147875.20 replying to 147875.19 147875.19 ]    

<<Moreover, the suggestion that health care reform would greatly reduce the deaths due to the lack of medical insurance is spurious. >>

Now why is that?   


 OptionsReply to this Message Reply
 Subscribe SubscribeGet a printer-friendly version of this discussion Print Discussion 
Today's Topic

Dying to be heard

  
 
     
 
 

Sponsored Links of the Day

 
• 

Are You Safe to Drive?


Find an approved, inexpensive breathalyzer testing device to learn about blood alcohol levels and to better know your limit. Get a Tester Today
http://search.compuserve.com
 
• 

Looking for Love?


Match.com...The best way to meet local singles. Start your search now!
http://www.match.com
 
• 

Get A Flat Screen


Are you still squinting with a dim, FuZZY computer monitor? Get a crisp new flat panel that saves space and energy. Upgrade your Computer!
http://search.compuserve.com
 
The Democratic Forum

Welcome, Guest

  • Post a message
  • New messages to you
  • Log in

Start Search
Advanced Search

Prospero Blocks
 
 
 
Special Offers
 
 
 

Finding People

 
 
 

Cool Clicks!

 
 
 
© 2009 CompuServe Interactive Services, Inc. All rights reserved.

Legal Notices | Privacy Policy