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Politics/Econ

Financial Reform?

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#1 of 112

     Posted Oct-28 12:00 AM   
Dage Ryk
 
From  Dage Ryk  Posts 383  Last Nov-17
To  All      [Msg # 190419.1 ]    

Reuters' outline of first two proposed bills for systemic financial reform in the US at:

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN2726983620091028

 

First learn the meaning of what you say, and then speak. - Epictetus
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#2 of 112

     Posted Oct-30 8:50 AM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 322  Last 7:32 PM
To  Dage Ryk      [Msg # 190419.2 Message 190419.2 replying to 190419.1 190419.1 ]    

The FOMC has a long term outlook for the economy.  The Treasury and Congress have a 2 to 4 year outlook depending on the election cycle.  There is a power play in which somehow people believe the gov't can solve our problems.  Not likely.

Bob

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#3 of 112

     Posted Oct-31 12:26 PM   
John From Detroit
 
From  John From Detroit  Posts 3020  Last 11:08 AM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190419.3 Message 190419.3 replying to 190419.2 190419.2 ]    
I have to agree that one of the major issues with our government is that many of them can not see past the next election.

I know of two presidents who managed to do that.. Regan and Kennedy.. Both had plans that ran well beyond the next election.. Kennedy's happened.. Then. once the first goal was reached,,, Congress cut the funding to a fraction of what would have kept this country way on top. (NASA, man on moon by end of decade,  Happened)
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#4 of 112

     Posted Oct-31 5:43 PM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 322  Last 7:32 PM
To  John From Detroit      [Msg # 190419.4 Message 190419.4 replying to 190419.3 190419.3 ]    

 know of two presidents who managed to do that.. Regan and Kennedy.. Both had plans that ran well beyond the next election.. Kennedy's happened.. Then. once the first goal was reached,,, Congress cut the funding to a fraction of what would have kept this country way on top. (NASA, man on moon by end of decade,  Happened)

John,

JFK did some great things in hard times.  Bay of Pigs, Moon shot dream and sent advisors to Vietnam.  His Profiles in Courage was a great book.

Bob 

 

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#5 of 112

     Posted Oct-31 7:44 PM   
Fred Greene
 
From  Fred Greene  Posts 658  Last 7:25 PM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190419.5 Message 190419.5 replying to 190419.4 190419.4 ]    
>JFK did some great things in hard times.  Bay of Pigs, Moon shot dream and sent advisors to Vietnam.  His Profiles in Courage was a great book.

Bob <

     I seem to recall that the Bay of Pigs was a total disaster.

Fred

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#6 of 112

     Posted Oct-31 9:53 PM   
ccarlandict
 
From  ccarlandict  Posts 525  Last 6:11 PM
To  Dage Ryk      [Msg # 190419.6 Message 190419.6 replying to 190419.1 190419.1 ]    
> Reuters' outline of first two proposed bills for systemic financial reform in the US at: http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN2726983620091028 <


Thanks...the purposed legislation is a start but doesn't come near my ideals of a fair shake for the little guys who are the genius of the American economy.  Economic and social policies should not remove moral hazard for banks great and small  while mouthpieces for those banks tell consumers "Ultimately, an educated and informed consumer is the best defense against predatory practices. And which industry is most committed to helping financial literacy? The answer is New York’s and the nation’s bankers."

In his 1988 inauguration speech George W. Bush told Americans his first priority was to recapitalize the banks which as an industry were in danger of failing due to a real estate bubble which had collapsed.  He sent legislation to congress and it was passed.  During the next six years the U.S. economy grew anemically while banks were able to recapitalize themselves on the backs of tax payers with a favorable rate difference engineered by the Federal Reserve. 

'Short of investing directly in a failing bank, lowering the bank's cost of deposits is the sole method available to a central bank to sustain a bank that is "too big to fail."This blunt mechanism has two effects, both very beneficial for financial institutions. Lowering borrowing costs is slow to take effect, since if a bank pays its depositors 6.5% and charges its borrowers 9%, the bank makes 2.5% profit over a year. Not bad. But if a bank borrows money at 6.5% in the short term markets which are under central bank control, invests the proceeds in the bond market, and long term interest rates then fall creating capital gains, the effect is dramatic and immediate.

The Federal Reserve reacted in dramatic fashion, shifting its attention to the banking crisis, the most urgent problem of the day. Between the end of October and January 1991, they dropped their Federal Funds rate from 8.25% to 6.5%. For those banks without major loan problems, this flood of low cost liquidity brought fabulous profits. By the end of 1992, the share prices of JPMorgan and Chase had more than doubled from the crisis low, while shareholders of Merrill Lynch were four times wealthier. Citicorp's problems proved more intractable, and shareholders despaired as the stock price bottomed at Christmas in 1991 The Federal Reserve continued to press their funds rate down until the end of 1992, until it stabilized at 3%. Confidence in bonds escalated rapidly, and the engines of liquidity worked overtime.

In 1992 and 1993 combined, the long term bond market provided capital gains of close to 20%. The "carry trade", as this mechanism had come to be called, was so profitable that many others, particularly hedge funds, rushed to enjoy the ride, borrowing at a low cost and buying bonds. As the potential gains became obvious, unsophisticated investors joined in, pushing the bond market up dramatically in rampant speculation. By the fall of 1993, the recapitalization of the banking system was complete. Even Citicorp had by then increased to $22. At no time during this process did the Federal Reserve acknowledge the magnitude of the problems.'

Banks are necessary.  George Bush's administration tackled the capitalization problem and saved the banks.  However he lost his bid for a second term partially due to an anemic economy caused by the invisible to consumers subsidy for banks.

When the next US real estate bubble developed America again had a president named George Bush.  Commercial Banks had learned some lessons from the mid 1980's real estate bubble.  So had Investment Banks.  Bank real estate loans were sold quickly to investment banks which bundled them together for sale as highly diversified and through diversification theoretically safe bonds.  The bonds were rated by big financial firms like Moodys. While the bubble was expanding there was easy money to be made and the finance industry engaged in questionable practices which resulted in systemic risk to the world's economy.  When the bubble collapsed the government deemed some banks to large to fail.   A liquidity crises occurred but the finance industry was saved by huge temporary infusions of government capital.  The US economy is again suffering anemia from invisible cost due to risk taken by the finance industry.

Lesson's from the US financial industry over the last thirty years and two real estate bubble/bust cyclers confirm "Ultimately, an educated and informed consumer is the best defense against predatory practices. "

But the "industry" most committed to helping inform the consummer is the nation's government since the financial industry including banks of all sizes have proven untrustworthy.

Strong new regulatory structures are needed to prevent history from repeating.

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#7 of 112

     Posted Oct-31 10:58 PM   
Dage Ryk
 
From  Dage Ryk  Posts 383  Last Nov-17
To  ccarlandict      [Msg # 190419.7 Message 190419.7 replying to 190419.6 190419.6 ]    

>Banks are necessary. 

Yes, although not necessarily in their present form/s.

>George Bush's administration tackled the capitalization problem and saved the banks.  However he lost his bid for a second term partially due to an anemic economy caused by the invisible to consumers subsidy for banks.

Excellent point.

>When the next US real estate bubble developed America again had a president named George Bush.  Commercial Banks had learned some lessons from the mid 1980's real estate bubble.  So had Investment Banks.  Bank real estate loans were sold quickly to investment banks which bundled them together for sale as highly diversified and through diversification theoretically safe bonds.  The bonds were rated by big financial firms like Moodys. While the bubble was expanding there was easy money to be made and the finance industry engaged in questionable practices which resulted in systemic risk to the world's economy.  When the bubble collapsed the government deemed some banks to large to fail.   A liquidity crises occurred but the finance industry was saved by huge temporary infusions of government capital.  The US economy is again suffering anemia from invisible cost due to risk taken by the finance industry.

Unquestionably. I would also point out that in the late 1980s, George the First had quashed all of the numerous, broadly based and backed attempts to reform corporate governance, rating agency reform and financial reporting. In addition, the RE bubble of the late 1980s was _prior to the abolition of Glass Steagel meaning that the new instruments like REITs, CMOs, CDOs, etc. were still totally outside the jurisdiction of the Federal Reserve and FDIC, and not just when held by insurance companies (who are still largely exempt from Federal Reserve and FDIC, etc. supervision) or investment banks (which not yet have expanded into commercial banking).

>Lesson's from the US financial industry over the last thirty years and two real estate bubble/bust cyclers confirm "Ultimately, an educated and informed consumer is the best defense against predatory practices. "

>But the "industry" most committed to helping inform the consummer is the nation's government since the financial industry including banks of all sizes have proven untrustworthy.

There are some voices in the wilderness (Galbraith and Black) trying to get the polity, Congress, the Executive branch (DOJ) or _someone to take these institutions to task for their real sins, namely wholesale fraud, plain and simple.

>Strong new regulatory structures are needed to prevent history from repeating.

That's an understatement.

Two Moyers interviews with the voices in the wilderness that I recommend:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10302009/profile.html

See also the transcript or tape of the broadcast with Galbraith and take a look at the one in section below with Black which incidentally, also sheds more light on the uncharacteristic refusal of an administration to replace 500 FBI agents.

 

 

First learn the meaning of what you say, and then speak. - Epictetus
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#8 of 112

     Posted Nov-1 8:06 AM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 322  Last 7:32 PM
To  Dage Ryk      [Msg # 190419.8 Message 190419.8 replying to 190419.7 190419.7 ]    

Aren't the banks having a international problem?  Are not England and Germany having similar problems with a financial crisis?  I'm not sure you can blame all of this on Bush and Greenspan.

Bob

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#9 of 112

     Posted Nov-1 8:43 AM   
dave
 
From  dave  Posts 1040  Last 6:12 AM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190419.9 Message 190419.9 replying to 190419.8 190419.8 ]    
  I'm not sure you can blame all of this on Bush and Greenspan.<<

Not all. Greenspan was certainly a major player in the disaster- and the problems in other countries can be traced back to the US to some extent. The FRB and the FOMC determine us monetary policy, and the status of the U dollar (and US markets) are major factors in the economy all over the world. there are even countries with no local currency-they use ours
"Any fool can appreciate California. To appreciate Kansas requires subtlety and character and
attention.
" --Wes Jackson
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#10 of 112

     Posted Nov-1 10:00 AM   
ccarlandict
 
From  ccarlandict  Posts 525  Last 6:11 PM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190419.10 Message 190419.10 replying to 190419.8 190419.8 ]    
> Aren't the banks having a international problem?  Are not England and Germany having similar problems with a financial crisis?  I'm not sure you can blame all of this on Bush and Greenspan.<

Or Goldman Sachs.<G>

McClarchy Newspapers has another investigative piece out this morning.

'MCT exclusive series: How Goldman Sachs secretly bet on the housing crash

MiamiHerald.com - Greg Gordon - ?6 hours ago?
In the 1980s and '90s, Goldman Sachs Group ran a staid residential mortgage operation that simply bought and sold loans. But in 2001, the elite investment ...
How Goldman secretly bet on the US housing crash San Luis Obispo Tribune '
http://news.google.com/news?q=Goldman%20Sachs&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn


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#11 of 112

     Posted Nov-1 10:33 AM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 322  Last 7:32 PM
To  ccarlandict      [Msg # 190419.11 Message 190419.11 replying to 190419.10 190419.10 ]    

'MCT exclusive series: How Goldman Sachs secretly bet on the housing crash

I agree something is rotten here.  Let's hope DOJ finds them guilty and off with their head.

Bob 

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#12 of 112

     Posted Nov-1 1:29 PM   
John From Detroit
 
From  John From Detroit  Posts 3020  Last 11:08 AM
To  Fred Greene      [Msg # 190419.12 Message 190419.12 replying to 190419.5 190419.5 ]    
I too agree that Bay of Pigs was not the success that was hoped for.

However, it does not dim that Kennedy's vision, in his 1961 speech, was for man to set foot on the moon before "The end of the decade" (1970) and... that came to pass.

Even though Kennedy could not have expected to hold office past what, Jan 21, 1969, even if re-elected (end of what would have been his 2nd term)

The sad thing is that once his "Dying wish" was satisfied, Funding for NASA was chopped rather seriously..  I suspect had NASA gotten the funding it should have.. We might just all be better off today.
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#13 of 112

     Posted Nov-1 8:09 PM   
ccarlandict
 
From  ccarlandict  Posts 525  Last 6:11 PM
To  Dage Ryk      [Msg # 190419.13 Message 190419.13 replying to 190419.7 190419.7 ]    
> See also the transcript or tape of the broadcast with Galbraith and take a look at the one in section below with Black which incidentally, also sheds more light on the uncharacteristic refusal of an administration to replace 500 FBI agents. <

noted...its here.  as is:
' There were two really big things, under the Clinton administration. One, they got rid of the law that came out of the real-world disasters of the Great Depression. We learned a lot of things in the Great Depression. And one is we had to separate what's called commercial banking from investment banking. That's the Glass-Steagall law. But we thought we were much smarter, supposedly. So we got rid of that law, and that was bipartisan. And the other thing is we passed a law, because there was a very good regulator, Brooksley Born, that everybody should know about and probably doesn't. She tried to do the right thing to regulate one of these exotic derivatives that you're talking about. We call them C.D.F.S. And Summers, Rubin, and Phil Gramm came together to say not only will we block this particular regulation. We will pass a law that says you can't regulate. And it's this type of derivative that is most involved in the AIG scandal. AIG all by itself, cost the same as the entire Savings and Loan debacle. '
I felt very uneasy when Glass-Steagall was repealed but stiffed my qualms with the thought "maybe they are right...maybe it is different this time."  Boy was I wrong.  Summers and Rubin should have known better than to get cosy Gramm on anything. 

By the way 
ROBERT J. SHILLER Inequality-Indexing of the Tax System
1
Robert Shiller during a CNN interview today mentioned his “inequality indexation” of the tax system idea. Financial reform legislation might incorporate something like it.  


> That's an understatement. <

I like understatement...of course it wouldn't go over at a neo-conservative "Tea Party" would it?<G>
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#14 of 112

     Posted Nov-2 6:54 AM   
dave
 
From  dave  Posts 1040  Last 6:12 AM
To  ccarlandict      [Msg # 190419.14 Message 190419.14 replying to 190419.13 190419.13 ]    
Brooksly Born tried to be a true hero, but we wouldn't let her. Gramm,Rubin et al should be pilloried- maybe Summers too-but alas, they are still treated as people to be listened to (well, gramm not so much).

I was appaled by the Glass-Steagall repeal. I hoped I was wrong. Sometimes I don't like being right.
"Any fool can appreciate California. To appreciate Kansas requires subtlety and character and
attention.
" --Wes Jackson
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#15 of 112

     Posted Nov-2 7:40 AM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 322  Last 7:32 PM
To  John From Detroit      [Msg # 190419.15 Message 190419.15 replying to 190419.12 190419.12 ]    

The sad thing is that once his "Dying wish" was satisfied, Funding for NASA was chopped rather seriously..  I suspect had NASA gotten the funding it should have.. We might just all be better off today.

I saw a NASA funding request at a recent SUB-Committee hearing.  When asked to justify his budget, he responded (NASA) that he couldn't compete with feeding the poor or other programs.  He knew if he didn't get the requested amount, NASA programs would suffer.  Going back to the moon has great value in going forward.  NASA and the sea are our next frontiers.

Bob

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#16 of 112

     Posted Nov-2 10:53 AM   
John From Detroit
 
From  John From Detroit  Posts 3020  Last 11:08 AM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190419.16 Message 190419.16 replying to 190419.15 190419.15 ]    
"Space, The final frontier"  (Famous opening line)

Yes, The thing about NASA funding v/s "Feeding the poor" is this.

Many folks say we should feed the poor, house the homeless, heal the sick and such and not worry about "Throwing money away on outer space"

But. there is another line that applies.. the old "Give a man a fish/Teach him to fish" one

NASA put people to work.. Now, true, some of them were "The elite" to start with, IQ's in the stratosphere Degrees all over the wall, but the fact is that there were many, many, who were basically blue collar types. They are the ones who actually BUILT the rockets, and space ships. Welders, Forgers, Warehousemen, Material Handlers (Another name for warehousman) and even the janitor who swept the floor in the shop.

And ... Thus funding NASA would convert many people from being a drain on the system to being... Well "Supply Side"

And thus give us more money (per person) to spend on feeding the suddenly reduced number of poor.

And that is just ONE way funding NASA benefits us all.. JUST ONE

I once visited a friend of my daughter's in hospital, Like my daughter she plays classical flute.. Unlike my daughter she has an iffy heart and thus has a pacemaker.. She was in for a "Tune up" as it turned out.

She was able to get out of bed, go down to a "Common" or Day room, which is a much larger room than her double.. and celebrate her birthday.. All the wile the nurse's station knew where she was and was monitoring her vital signs... When I was that young lady's age,,, If I'd have had the same kind of issues.. I'd have been tied to my bed with wires and cables and sensors (She had all the sensors by the way) and when my mother was her age it would have been a nurse in the room 24x7 no remote monitors possible.

So, how come she could run all over the floor with a small "pack of coffin nails" size box pinned to her gown radioing all her vitals back to nurse central?... Simple... The technology was the same that radioed John Glen's vital signs back to Space Central.  It was NASA spin off .

And again.. That is but ONE example

To list 'em all.. I'd still be typing when it comes time to pack up and move on Sunday.

Edited Nov-2   by  John From Detroit
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#17 of 112

     Posted Nov-2 3:18 PM   
ccarlandict
 
From  ccarlandict  Posts 525  Last 6:11 PM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190419.17 Message 190419.17 replying to 190419.11 190419.11 ]    

>>'MCT exclusive series: How Goldman Sachs secretly bet on the housing crash<

>I agree something is rotten here.  Let's hope DOJ finds them guilty and off with their head.<

I would prefer re-regulation of investment and commercial banks  to heads rolling.


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#18 of 112

     Posted Nov-2 3:35 PM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 322  Last 7:32 PM
To  John From Detroit      [Msg # 190419.18 Message 190419.18 replying to 190419.16 190419.16 ]    

John,

I hope you think I'm on the side of NASA!  R&D is the only way to make this rat race better.

Bob

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#19 of 112

     Posted Nov-2 3:37 PM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 322  Last 7:32 PM
To  ccarlandict      [Msg # 190419.19 Message 190419.19 replying to 190419.17 190419.17 ]    

I would prefer re-regulation of investment and commercial banks  to heads rolling.

Re-regulation don't get anyone's attention.  Roll a few heads and you'll get compliance.  I don't mean we put them where there is tennis courts - sledge hammers and rocks to be broken.  Put them outside in tents and give them pink clothes to wear.

Bob

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#20 of 112

     Posted Nov-2 6:33 PM   
ccarlandict
 
From  ccarlandict  Posts 525  Last 6:11 PM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190419.20 Message 190419.20 replying to 190419.19 190419.19 ]    
> Re-regulation don't get anyone's attention. <

But it does.  Banks, Wall Street, and Insurance use to be careful of their reputations but with de-regulation they have become houses of financial prostitution. 
 
>Roll a few heads and you'll get compliance.  I don't mean we put them where there is tennis courts - sledge hammers and rocks to be broken.  Put them outside in tents and give them pink clothes to wear.<

You mean people like Andrew Fastow who learned his art at Continental Illinois National Bank and Trust Company should be placed in the Sheriff of Maricopa County's care rather than in ADX Florence?


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