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IBM borrows $2B

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#1 of 25

     Posted Nov-3 5:43 PM   
Dan Hess
 
From  Dan Hess  Posts 4718  Last 9:21 AM
To  All      [Msg # 33770.1 ]    

Today it was reported IBM will borrow $2B.  Since IBM is sitting on a pile of cash and has record free cash flow one may wonder why they would borrow $2B.  Here is the WSJ article reporting this deal.

The $2B is split between a 2 year offering of $750M at 3 month Libor plus 7 basis points or about 0.47% and $1.25B at May 2013 TB plus 70 basis points or about 1.94%.  With IBM PTPM of about 14% and borrowing money at 0.47% and 1.94% you can see this looks to be very profitable for IBM.  This of course results in earnings growth in excess of revenues. The IBM Treasurer has been quite astute in the past to borrow money just before interest rates increased and this may perhaps be another instance of this.

If you look at the IBM Balance Sheet you will see about $25B in debt.  This may seem like a lot until you recognize IBM has a finance arm that lends money to customers who buy IBM products and services.  If you back out the amount of debt carried by the debt the base company has a rather low amount of debt. 

With the low US interest rates there has been a shift from the Yen Carry Trade to the Dollar Carry Trade resulting in much borrowing of dollars at very low rates and investing at higher return securities.  When you can borrow at 2% it is not too hard to make a great return. 

Dan 

  

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#2 of 25

     Posted Nov-3 6:04 PM   
Bob
 
From  Bob  Posts 5478  Last 7:25 PM
To  Dan Hess      [Msg # 33770.2 Message 33770.2 replying to 33770.1 33770.1 ]    

Dan,

My club places a lot of emphasis on debt-free.  My view (minority) is that with low cost of money, one should borrow and seek to improve on it.   It is apparent that IBM has broken the code and will do well.  If the firm cannot do better than the current returns, maybe we should change horses. (G)

Bob   

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#3 of 25

     Posted Nov-3 10:53 PM   
Bakul Lalla, Administrator
 
From  Bakul Lalla, Administrator  Posts 2832  Last Nov-20
To  Dan Hess      [Msg # 33770.3 Message 33770.3 replying to 33770.1 33770.1 ]    
When you can borrow at 2% it is not too hard to make a great return.

Absolutely! Companies can take on debt and retire a lot of equity shares to reduce weighted average cost of capital (WACC). Anyway, a few months ago, I've done a rough order of magnitude estimate of cash return on invested capital (CROIC) i.e. FCF/(Long Term Liability+Equity). I've attached a CROIC graph with this post ... you'll see why they are doing what they are doing.


Bakul

Attachments
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#4 of 25

     Posted Nov-3 11:10 PM   
Dan Hess
 
From  Dan Hess  Posts 4718  Last 9:21 AM
To  Bakul Lalla, Administrator      [Msg # 33770.4 Message 33770.4 replying to 33770.3 33770.3 ]    

Bakul

Thanks for the chart.  A picture is always worth a lot of words.

It has been reported recently that corporations are raising their cash levels above normal levels.  This would seem to indicate that either they see soem rough times coming that will require cash to weather or they may be raisng cash to pursue acquisitions.  It would seem to support the old cliche that cash is king. I admit I look closely at free cash flow when analyzing any company other than a small young rapidly growing startup.

Dan

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#5 of 25

     Posted Nov-3 11:43 PM   
Bakul Lalla, Administrator
 
From  Bakul Lalla, Administrator  Posts 2832  Last Nov-20
To  Dan Hess      [Msg # 33770.5 Message 33770.5 replying to 33770.4 33770.4 ]    
This would seem to indicate that either they see soem rough times coming that will require cash to weather or they may be raisng cash to pursue acquisitions.

Dan,

I read about this as well in 11/2 issue of WSJ on the front page. Anyway, I'd prefer management to return cash to owners in the way of dividends or share buybacks. Obviously, the cash accumulation on balance sheets does not bode well for EPS in the near term but it could be deployed in CapEx for organic growth or acquisitions to gain market share. The bladder theory of Peter Lynch states that management usually *iss it away!



Bakul
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#6 of 25

     Posted Nov-4 1:47 PM   
Al Molter
 
From  Al Molter  Posts 1109  Last Nov-20
To  Bakul Lalla, Administrator      [Msg # 33770.6 Message 33770.6 replying to 33770.5 33770.5 ]    

I would much prefer to see the cash in my mailbox, rather than having management tell me how much I will profit from stock buybacks.

I have yet to see a stock buyback that benefitted me, unless the company was buying my shares back at a tremendous profit (to me). Buying someone else's stock at a tremendous profit to him doesn't do a whole lot for me.

Al Molter
Director
South Texas Chapter

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#7 of 25

     Posted Nov-4 3:28 PM   
Bakul Lalla, Administrator
 
From  Bakul Lalla, Administrator  Posts 2832  Last Nov-20
To  Al Molter      [Msg # 33770.7 Message 33770.7 replying to 33770.6 33770.6 ]    
I would much prefer to see the cash in my mailbox, rather than having management tell me how much I will profit from stock buybacks.

Fair enough.


Bakul
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#8 of 25

     Posted Nov-4 3:55 PM   
Bob
 
From  Bob  Posts 5478  Last 7:25 PM
To  Al Molter      [Msg # 33770.8 Message 33770.8 replying to 33770.6 33770.6 ]    

Dividends are real money.  Stock buybacks increase your slice of the company pie.  Fewer slices mean more for you, all else being equal.  Dividends normally can cause a tax event while buybacks normally don't.

If a company is buying back shares only to issue options, then no, it's not fruitful.  When I see shares being repurchases, I wonder if the company believes the stock to be undervalued.

Bob

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#9 of 25

     Posted Nov-4 4:42 PM   
Dan Hess
 
From  Dan Hess  Posts 4718  Last 9:21 AM
To  Al Molter      [Msg # 33770.9 Message 33770.9 replying to 33770.6 33770.6 ]    
I  would much prefer to see the cash in my mailbox, rather than having management tell me how much I will profit from stock buybacks.

I have yet to see a stock buyback that benefited me, unless the company was buying my shares back at a tremendous profit (to me). Buying someone else's stock at a tremendous profit to him doesn't do a whole lot for me.

Al, I agree dividends are preferable to me as well.  However given a choice of having the company keep the money as part of their net worth or pay it out via stock buybacks, I prefer the latter.

We can thank our Congress for causing the stock buy back phenomena.  Way back they decided execs were being paid to much (sound familiar) so in their ultimate wisdom passed a law they thought would prevent excessive pay by not allowing a salary of over $500K ( I think later raised to $1M) not to be able to be written off as an expense.  This is what caused the companies to issue stock options to key employees instead of higher salaries.  Since these key employees own options it is to their benefit to see the stock price rise which they can do via stock buy backs (less shares for the same earnings equals higher EPS) and of course that is what has happened.  Paying out dividends does not directly cause the stock price to rise. 

Of course you have to watch out to see if the stock buybacks are merely enough to cover the newly issued shares to pay the key employees their stock options.

So like most legislature passed by Congress the law of unintended consequences comes into play since there are always some in private industry who are just a little smarter than our Congress people who write (but do not read) our new laws.    

Dan

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#10 of 25

     Posted Nov-4 6:52 PM   
Al Molter
 
From  Al Molter  Posts 1109  Last Nov-20
To  Bob      [Msg # 33770.10 Message 33770.10 replying to 33770.8 33770.8 ]    

<Stock buybacks increase your slice of the company pie. Fewer slices mean more for you, all else being equal.>

That may very well be, but stock buybacks do not unequivocally push up the price of the stock, even though Earnings Per Share may be increased; that's a whole lot different than saying, '...earning per share increase.' The former infers that EPS are being artificially moved/manipulated to reflect an artificial change (increase, in this case); the latter suggests that the fundamentals behind the figures are increasing.

What needs to be observed is the increase or decrease in Net Profits. That will tell one much about whether stock buybacks are unduly influencing growth in Earnings Per Share

<Dividends normally can cause a tax event while buybacks normally don't.>

Yes, they do, but our leadership has not put into play their undying efforts to take it all (yet).

Al Molter
Director
South Texas Chapter

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#11 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 7:38 AM   
Bob
 
From  Bob  Posts 5478  Last 7:25 PM
To  Al Molter      [Msg # 33770.11 Message 33770.11 replying to 33770.10 33770.10 ]    

That may very well be, but stock buybacks do not unequivocally push up the price of the stock, even though Earnings Per Share may be increased; that's a whole lot different than saying, '...earning per share increase.' The former infers that EPS are being artificially moved/manipulated to reflect an artificial change (increase, in this case); the latter suggests that the fundamentals behind the figures are increasing.

What needs to be observed is the increase or decrease in Net Profits. That will tell one much about whether stock buybacks are unduly influencing growth in Earnings Per Share

AL,

You are correct but generally speaking share buybacks are a good thing.  As a shareholder what do you want your firm to do with the money they just earned.  They can give it to you in the form of a dividend, reinvest it back into company and/or buyback shares.

Dividends have many pro's and con's.  Once started they are hard to stop.  They have tax consequences.  Buffett pays no dividends because he can do better with the money than the shareholder.

Reinvestment back can be many things; pay off debt, hold for opportunity, increase R&D, etc etc etc.

Sharebuyback may be the best alternative for the shareholder.  The market may have so undervalued the firm.  It has little tax consequence on the share holder.

Some combination of the above.  EPS and Net Profit are means to evaluating those decisions.

Bob

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#12 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 7:57 AM   
Al Molter
 
From  Al Molter  Posts 1109  Last Nov-20
To  Bob      [Msg # 33770.12 Message 33770.12 replying to 33770.11 33770.11 ]    

<Sharebuyback may be the best alternative for the shareholder.>

I am open to concrete benefits of share buybacks. Personally, I don't know any.

Yes, dividends paid to shareholders will create a taxable event for the shareholder, but for every dollar I receive, I get to keep most of it.

If the company keeps the money, I'd certainly hope they would invest it along avenues that would enhance shareholder value - internal growth or acquisition. I fail to see where buybacks enhance shareholder value. Rhetoric is fine, but I'd still like to have the cash if the company doesn't use it for growth.

Al Molter
Director
South Texas Chapter

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#13 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 8:25 AM   
Bob
 
From  Bob  Posts 5478  Last 7:25 PM
To  Al Molter      [Msg # 33770.13 Message 33770.13 replying to 33770.12 33770.12 ]    

I am open to concrete benefits of share buybacks. Personally, I don't know any

Al,

Who's in the best position to know the true value of a share of stock?  I'd submit it is the company itself.  When the market undervalues a stock, then that is the time to buy shares.  The company then uses shareholder money to buy stocks.  Each shareholder then profits by the purchase.  It is like insider trading. (G)  OTOH, if you don't believe the company has the shareholder's best interest at heart, probably time to sell the stock.

Bob

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#14 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 9:25 AM   
Al Molter
 
From  Al Molter  Posts 1109  Last Nov-20
To  Bob      [Msg # 33770.14 Message 33770.14 replying to 33770.13 33770.13 ]    

<Each shareholder then profits by the purchase.>

How?

Al Molter
Director
South Texas Chapter

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#15 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 9:32 AM   
Dan Hess
 
From  Dan Hess  Posts 4718  Last 9:21 AM
To  Bob      [Msg # 33770.15 Message 33770.15 replying to 33770.13 33770.13 ]    

Al and Bob

I am open to concrete benefits of share buybacks. Personally, I don't know any

Al, here is one for your consideration.  In 2006 IBM established a 5 year plan to increase EPS from $6.05 in 2006 to $10 to $10.50 in 2010. This is a very challenging growth rate for a large company.  Thus far through 3Q09 they are ahead of schedule.  Part of this plan was an extensive buyback program that would add $1.10 to EPS by 2010 solely due to buybacks.  This of course is the net shares purchased minus the shares required for stock options.  Thus far they are ahead of schedule and analysts are now expecting EPS of $10.90 in 2010.  If this occurs then about 22% of the EPS growth was the result of share buybacks.  

From the beginning of 2006 the stock price of IBM has increased from 82.06 to 121.09 or about 47%.  I would suggest the share buybacks were a significant factor in this stock price rise.  During this same period the S&P 500 decline 18%.  I am not saying all of this delta was due to buybacks but I do believe it was a significant contributor.

The number of IBM shares outstanding has declined from 1506M in 2006 to a VL estimated 1200M in 2010.  Thus a decline in the number of shares outstanding of about 20% during this period.  This is an indication that although IBM has a lucrative employee stock option program the buybacks significantly exceeded the options given. This is something I see as important to observe when you are considering the benefits of a stock buy back.

Who's in the best position to know the true value of a share of stock?  I'd submit it is the company itself.  When the market undervalues a stock, then that is the time to buy shares.  The company then uses shareholder money to buy stocks.  Each shareholder then profits by the purchase.  It is like insider trading. (G)  OTOH, if you don't believe the company has the shareholder's best interest at heart, probably time to sell the stock.

I do not believe the bulk of the stock buybacks are company executives buying back shares because they see them as undervalued.  Most are part of longer term programs to periodically buyback shares.  The key here is knowing when a stock is undervalued.  If corporate mgmt was astute enough to know this for certain they could likely make more money simply trading stocks.  However I do agree company officials know more about their company and are in a better position to know the value and thus would tend to buy more when the price is undervalued.  I think corporate treasurers give higher priority to the required strength of the balance sheet to run the business as opposed to buying undervalued shares.  How many bought on March 6 of this year clearly as ideal time to buy?

Dan

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#16 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 9:35 AM   
Bob
 
From  Bob  Posts 5478  Last 7:25 PM
To  Al Molter      [Msg # 33770.16 Message 33770.16 replying to 33770.14 33770.14 ]    

<Each shareholder then profits by the purchase.>

How?

Al,

You profit because, you as a shareholder bought something less than it true value.  The fact it was shares, has the added benefit of reducing the amount of shares you have to split it with.

Bob

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#17 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 9:40 AM   
Bob
 
From  Bob  Posts 5478  Last 7:25 PM
To  Dan Hess      [Msg # 33770.17 Message 33770.17 replying to 33770.15 33770.15 ]    

Dan,

EPS is only one test and can be manipulated or at least I think that was Al's point.  Long term eps manipulation is very very difficult.

I didn't mean that a company was in the position to trade stocks but rather had insight to  when to buy and sell.  In fact, I've seen cases where although the board authorized buybacks, they were not executed but of financial reasons.  I would think at least one would be value.

Bob

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#18 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 11:08 AM   
Al Molter
 
From  Al Molter  Posts 1109  Last Nov-20
To  Dan Hess      [Msg # 33770.18 Message 33770.18 replying to 33770.15 33770.15 ]    

< In 2006 IBM established a 5 year plan to increase EPS from $6.05 in 2006 to $10 to $10.50 in 2010. This is a very challenging growth rate for a large company. Thus far through 3Q09 they are ahead of schedule. Part of this plan was an extensive buyback program that would add $1.10 to EPS by 2010 solely due to buybacks. This of course is the net shares purchased minus the shares required for stock options. Thus far they are ahead of schedule and analysts are now expecting EPS of $10.90 in 2010. If this occurs then about 22% of the EPS growth was the result of share buybacks. >

After reviewing the 2008 Annual Report for IBM, the following figures standout:

2006 Net Profits: $ 9.492B
2008 Net Profits: $12.334B
Three-year Compound annual growth in Net Profits: 9.1%

2006 EPS: $6.11
2008 EPS: $8.93
Three-year Compound annual growth in EPS: 13.5%

Although EPS grew at a 50% greater rate than Net Profits, I fail to see where share buybacks did nothing for me as a shareholder, nor for any other shareholder. The company grew (by profit standards) 9.1%. The market place has rewarded IBM shareholders a value based upon how the market views IBM's ability to continue to grow their profits, not their EPS; this is what increased my value, not stock buybacks. If there were no share buybacks (nor issuance of additional shares), IBM's earnings would have grown at the same rate as Net Profits, and the market place most likely would have rewarded IBM's ability to grow [their Net Profits] with the same enthusiasm.

I believe the market places too much importance on EPS growth AND share buybacks, and too little importance on Net Profits - until too late in the game. Share buybacks have very little, if anything, to do with growing the company, nor enhancing my value.

One of my favorite questions to ask of Investor Relations folks when they brag about stock buybacks and EPS growth is for them to also relate all of this to Revenue and Net Profit growth. The follow-up usually indicates that share buybacks led to a more impressive EPS number.

Al Molter
Director
South Texas Chapter

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#19 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 1:24 PM   
Dan Hess
 
From  Dan Hess  Posts 4718  Last 9:21 AM
To  Al Molter      [Msg # 33770.19 Message 33770.19 replying to 33770.18 33770.18 ]    

Al

After reviewing the 2008 Annual Report for IBM, the following figures standout:

2006 Net Profits: $ 9.492B
2008 Net Profits: $12.334B
Three-year Compound annual growth in Net Profits: 9.1%

2006 EPS: $6.11
2008 EPS: $8.93
Three-year Compound annual growth in EPS: 13.5%

Although EPS grew at a 50% greater rate than Net Profits, I fail to see where share buybacks did nothing for me as a shareholder, nor for any other shareholder. The company grew (by profit standards) 9.1%. The market place has rewarded IBM shareholders a value based upon how the market views IBM's ability to continue to grow their profits, not their EPS; this is what increased my value, not stock buybacks. If there were no share buybacks (nor issuance of additional shares), IBM's earnings would have grown at the same rate as Net Profits, and the market place most likely would have rewarded IBM's ability to grow [their Net Profits] with the same enthusiasm.

Yes the future estimated growth rate of EPS will determine the PE Ratio investors will apply to a company.

I believe the market places too much importance on EPS growth AND share buybacks, and too little importance on Net Profits - until too late in the game. Share buybacks have very little, if anything, to do with growing the company, nor enhancing my value.

I have a differing view. (bg)  While earnings may be important if you own the entire company, I believe that for an investor it is the EPS that is important.  When I own shares in a company my interest is the EPS.  This is in line with the SSG methodology where PE Ratios are an important consideration. 

Think about a company that doubles its earnings but in doing so doubles the number of sahres available.  A shareholder basically sees no increase in value despite the company doubling earnings.

One of my favorite questions to ask of Investor Relations folks when they brag about stock buybacks and EPS growth is for them to also relate all of this to Revenue and Net Profit growth. The follow-up usually indicates that share buybacks led to a more impressive EPS number

Revenue growth and profit margins of course are imnportant.  But it is the bottom line that is important for a shareholder. 

Another measure I use in evaluating a stock is the free cash flow yield.  This of course is (FCF /Shares)/Stock Price.  Using Morningstar data and a current price of $122.74 this comes out to 10.7%  [(17605/1338)/122.74].  When I see a company producing Free Cash at a 10.7% in this economy I view that as quite good.  Of course you can do the same thing with EPS and calculate the earnings yield.

Dan

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#20 of 25

     Posted Nov-5 7:35 PM   
Al Molter
 
From  Al Molter  Posts 1109  Last Nov-20
To  Dan Hess      [Msg # 33770.20 Message 33770.20 replying to 33770.19 33770.19 ]    

<Think about a company that doubles its earnings but in doing so doubles the number of sahres available. A shareholder basically sees no increase in value despite the company doubling earnings.>

So, if one doubles the earnings AND doubles the shares outstanding, the net profits have increased fourfold; no?

I would be hard pressed to think the shareholder saw no increase in value!

Now, if the company increased its net profits by 2X, say from $50M to $100M, and doubled its shares from 50M to 100M, EPS looks flat, but the company actually doubled its net profits. How can one see no increase in value? The market place may punish the company in the short term, but the company actually grew.

Al Molter
Director
South Texas Chapter

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IBM borrows $2B

  
 
     

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