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Hard Drives

Moving to new hard drive

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#1 of 34

     Posted Sep-24 8:23 PM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last 1:44 AM
To  All      [Msg # 164671.1 ]    

I've bought a 1 terabyte Seagate SATA hard drive to replace the 100 gig Maxtor SATA that came with my computer in 2006. There's nothing wrong with the Maxtor except that it's too small for the dual boot I plan to set up with Win 7. I'll put Win 7 on Drive I, which will be empty after I replace the old drive. The Maxtor has XP SP 3. I have a second hard drive, a 500 gig Seagate PATA.

I want to move Drive H and Drive I on the PATA drive to the new SATA drive and use the PATA drive completely for Linux (I currently have about 180 gigs for Linux on the PATA drive). I plan to use Seagate's DiskWizard or SeaTools or MaxBlast to do a manual clone of the old drive to the new drive. The manual clone will allow me to set the size of the partitions and volumes.

I have also made image files of Drive C (with the XP system files) and of the Compaq Recovery Partition. The files are on two external hard drives and on the PATA hard drive in the computer. I made a bootable CD to run Maxblast's version of TrueImage. If for any reason the clone doesn't work out, I should be able to restore these image files to the new hard drive.

If I have to use the image files, will they install the necessary driver for XP to recognize the SATA drive? MaxBlast's online help says to run the clone from Windows. But would running MaxBlast TrueImage from the bootable CD also install the driver for SATA drives? That is, is the necessary driver on the hard disk someplace? This computer has no floppy drive and I don't want to get a USB drive just for a single use.

Is there anything else I should know before I replace the drive?
--Judy M.


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#2 of 34

     Posted Sep-24 9:52 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 546  Last 12:47 PM
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164671.2 Message 164671.2 replying to 164671.1 164671.1 ]    

PMJI with a thought since I've just been through the business of XP and SATA drives on my new Ollie 3. There it was a question of installing XP clean on one of the two SATA drives and I followed up a suggestion from a blog to slipstream the SATA driver file into the XP ISO (in my case an XP SP3 already slipstreamed ISO!

This turned out to be delightfully simple using nLite to do the slipstreaming.

I know this does not apply directly to you but firstly I wonder if you can slipstream or otherwise add a file to an image -- I know you can manipulate them in some ways including opening them to extract a single file or folder.

In your case since you are going to have a second OS there I wonder if you can restore the image to the new drive and then add the files to install the SATA driver (for my ASUS mobo they tell you in the manual how to do this for XP if you want to use the alternative to IDE)?

Or even if you need worry until after the XP is installed if you set the BIOS to IDE and change it later?

If you can install from a USB drive that you say you do not want to buy, can you not use a thumbdrive? My ASUS BIOS will recognize a thumbdrive in the BIOS configuration and has a setting to enable a legacy driver. But note that a laptop I have does not show this in BIOS setup unless the thumbdrive is plugged in when you bootup and go into BIOS SETUP.

  Hugh

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#3 of 34

     Posted Sep-24 10:34 PM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last 1:44 AM
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164671.3 Message 164671.3 replying to 164671.2 164671.2 ]    

I am limited in what I can do because I have just a Restore Disk for XP, not a real XP installation disk. I certainly do not intend to do a fresh installation of XP. 

MaxBlast under "clone a drive" says to run MaxBlast from Windows in order to get the proper drivers. So that's the first thing I'll try. Only if it doesn't work will I attempt to restore an image.

>> If you can install from a USB drive that you say you do not want to buy, can you not use a thumbdrive? >>

I can boot from a bootable thumb drive but I thought you had to install the SATA driver for XP from a floppy drive. Would a thumb drive do it?

I'm still wondering where that driver goes. One would think somewhere on the Windows partition. Surely it doesn't go somewhere on the motherboard, does it (BIOS firmware?)? And it's for XP, so it must be somewhere on XP. Linux doesn't need such a thing.

I'm keeping the old drive installed until the new drive is ready, so if something doesn't work, I can just try something else.
--Judy M.


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Registered Linux User #397786
Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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#4 of 34

     Posted Sep-24 11:04 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1973  Last Nov-20
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164671.4 Message 164671.4 replying to 164671.1 164671.1 ]    

>>will they install the necessary driver for XP to recognize the SATA drive?

NO...

Cloning does not install any drivers.  However, if the existing HD is already accessing a SATA drive on that system, the drivers are already installed in Windows, so it should be "clone and boot"...

Remember:  Drivers are for the CONTROLLER, never the DRIVE - if the controller is already in use, the drivers are already installed.  TI's boot CD (whichever version you use) should recognize controllers circa 2006 directly...

 

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#5 of 34

     Posted Sep-24 11:07 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1973  Last Nov-20
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164671.5 Message 164671.5 replying to 164671.3 164671.3 ]    

>>MaxBlast under "clone a drive" says to run MaxBlast from Windows in order to get the proper drivers.

That makes little sense...

Ah, I believe what is meant is that to USE additional drivers that were installed in Windows, run the clone from within Windows (even though it re-boots to do the actual clone).  Nothing gets "installed" during the clone.  That requires other software, often called "universal restore" and TI's Home product does not include that facility...

 

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#6 of 34

     Posted Sep-25 12:54 AM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last 1:44 AM
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164671.6 Message 164671.6 replying to 164671.4 164671.4 ]    

>> However, if the existing HD is already accessing a SATA drive on that system, the drivers are already installed in Windows, so it should be "clone and boot"... >>

It is. I don't expect problems. I hope to get at it tomorrow. Will report if I run into problems, but I think things will go smoothly. 
--Judy M.


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Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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#7 of 34

     Posted Sep-25 1:42 AM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1973  Last Nov-20
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164671.7 Message 164671.7 replying to 164671.6 164671.6 ]    

Should go fine with that info...

Good luck!

 

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#8 of 34

     Posted Sep-25 10:36 AM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 546  Last 12:47 PM
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164671.8 Message 164671.8 replying to 164671.3 164671.3 ]    

You'll get real knnowledge from the others ....

<< I can boot from a bootable thumb drive but I thought you had to install the SATA driver for XP from a floppy drive. Would a thumb drive do it? >>

If it's needed during the installation of XP then that only offers a floppy drive but that's not the case with a restore.

As for LINUX not needing .... I'm not sure that is correct since my experience with Acronis DD/TI bootables which use LINUX is that they won't recognize the SATA drives on my new PC but the SAFE mode does, which Dale says goes to DOS ......

I think your best bet is "suck it and see" <g> in view of what Dale says in his replies to you here and to do the restore from within Windows. From what has been said here recently on my Press Any Key experiences you may have to watch very carefully that your image restores to a correct drive letter, whatever that means.

  Hugh

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#9 of 34

     Posted Sep-25 8:55 PM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last 1:44 AM
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164671.9 Message 164671.9 replying to 164671.8 164671.8 ]    

Tomorrow's the day! I've backed up the entire drive every way imaginable and the whole house would have to blow up before I'd lose anything.<g>

If I remember, I'll boot with a Linux installation disk to see if it sees the unformatted drive before I attempt a clone. There's a difference between being based on Linux and actually installing real Linux.

I don't care what drive letters get assigned. What matters here is what partitions get cloned. The Restore Partition is the first partition, a primary formatted with FAT32. Drive C is on the second primary partition, formatted as NTFS. The rest of the drive is an extended partition with three volumes: one as FAT32 and the others as NTFS. I'm going to make some changes and I *think* I can do them through a manual clone. I can adjust drive letters later.

It'll be interesting and I'm looking forward to it.
--Judy M.


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Registered Linux User #397786
Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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#10 of 34

     Posted Sep-25 9:33 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 546  Last 12:47 PM
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164671.10 Message 164671.10 replying to 164671.9 164671.9 ]    

The reason I mentioned drive letters is that it could matter, couldn't it, if the image was made of the OS on drive C: but when it was restored its drive letter was no longer C: -- the Registry etc would not be updated during Restore.

I can't visualize what you came from or where it's going so this may be a red herring but I had some strange things happen on Ollie 3 dual booted including installing WORD 2000 under XP which is on C: but finding it had put all the files on Drive D: which is the WIN 7 drive, with the menu shortcuts correctly on the Start Menu of the XP drive C: .....

I was looking for the folder and files in XP Explorer and couldn't find them in \Program Files\ so I opened WORD from the menu and checked Tools \ Options to see where file locations were set and it showed drive D:!

  Hugh

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#11 of 34

     Posted Sep-25 9:52 PM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last 1:44 AM
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164671.11 Message 164671.11 replying to 164671.10 164671.10 ]    

My volumes all have labels that are the same as the drive letter. I can easily tell if they're where they should be.

A dual boot with Linux would not have any issues like you experienced. Windows doesn't see Linux partitions. Plus my Linux partitions are on a different hard drive, which will be disconnected while I'm doing the cloning and won't be attached until everything is as it should be.

I don't plan to do a Restore. I'm doing a CLONE. Doing a Restore would be a fallback option but it shouldn't be necessary.
--Judy M.


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Registered Linux User #397786
Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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#12 of 34

     Posted Sep-26 10:09 AM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 546  Last 12:47 PM
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164671.12 Message 164671.12 replying to 164671.11 164671.11 ]    
I shall be very interested to know how it works out ......

  Hugh

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#13 of 34

     Posted Sep-26 10:14 AM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1973  Last Nov-20
To  Judy M.      [Msg # 164671.13 Message 164671.13 replying to 164671.9 164671.9 ]    

>>If I remember, I'll boot with a Linux installation disk to see if it sees the unformatted drive before I attempt a clone.

That won't reveal much of anything, FWIW...

>>I don't care what drive letters get assigned

I would  not concern myself with that - you are cloning the drive, then replacing the current drive with the new one.  At no time will BOTH drives be running at the same time, therefore, the drive lettering will not change...

Manual mode will enable you to adjust the partition SIZES and won't touch the Drive Letters at all...

 


Edited Sep-26   by  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
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#14 of 34

     Posted Sep-26 10:27 AM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 546  Last 12:47 PM
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164671.14 Message 164671.14 replying to 164671.13 164671.13 ]    

Thanks for the details. As you know I've had my share of the oddities of Windows so I'm hyper-nervous.

I must find out more about cloning.

  Hugh

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#15 of 34

     Posted Sep-26 12:26 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1973  Last Nov-20
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164671.15 Message 164671.15 replying to 164671.14 164671.14 ]    

Cloning is making a "copy" of one HD - ALL the partitions, one does not "pick and choose".  In Automatic mode, the clone tool proportions the target partitions if the target frive is of a different size - smaller or larger (presuming the data will "fit" if the tatget drive is smaller).  In Manual mode, the partition sizes can be set by the user.  I often do this when cloning a name-brand OEM system so the "factory" partition does not consume excess space on the target drive...

Totally unrelated to the stuff you have experienced...

While I have you ear, can you do me a small favor?  You have DDR3 memory in the new system, correct?  Can you run CPUZ, click on the SPD tab and see if there is a Week/ear value shown for your DDR3 Ram?  I have a friend whose memory shows "blank" in that field and I am wondering if that is still present with DDR3.  Never worked with it myself yet to know...

Thanks!

 

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#16 of 34

     Posted Sep-26 12:41 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 546  Last 12:47 PM
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164671.16 Message 164671.16 replying to 164671.15 164671.15 ]    

<< Totally unrelated to the stuff you have experienced... >>

I refuse to predict anything with Windows .... except trouble? <s>

Check this message of mine in PCHW for the DD3 infor -- it does show date but within CPUID ISTR it does say that some RAM does not actually contain all the information to fill their matrix.

BTW The diffeerence in the presentation of the two blocks of data -- DDR 2 and DDR 3 -- in that message is that the first was copy/pasted from the TXT fie and teh second from the HTML file.

  Hugh

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#17 of 34

     Posted Sep-26 1:32 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1973  Last Nov-20
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164671.17 Message 164671.17 replying to 164671.16 164671.16 ]    

Thanks - seems some vendors do not report that information any longer.  Leaves me wondering what they are hiding...  ;-)

 

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#18 of 34

     Posted Sep-26 2:08 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 546  Last 12:47 PM
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164671.18 Message 164671.18 replying to 164671.17 164671.17 ]    
The serial number for my RAM shows up as FFFFFFFFFF <s>

  Hugh

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#19 of 34

     Posted Sep-26 10:18 PM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last 1:44 AM
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164671.19 Message 164671.19 replying to 164671.12 164671.12 ]    

The deed is done. The 1 Tb hard drive has replaced the original 100 gig SATA, the manual cloning was easy and got me exactly what I wanted. I did not need to do anything about SATA drivers (the system was using a SATA drive when I got it).

No job like this can be done without a few Stupid Mistakes--at least when I do it.<g> This is a 3 Gb/s drive and my system is limited to 1.5 Gb/s, so I had to use a jumper to make it compatible. (Seagate didn't include a jumper, by the way, and it's a retail drive with cables, manual, software, etc., so I had to go to my extensive collection of drive screws and jumpers to find one that fit in the tight space.) I carefully noted where the jumper had to go. When I tried to start the clone with DiskWizard, I got a message that there was only one drive in the system and you need two in order to clone it. Hmmmm. First I checked the BIOS and the drive was listed. However, Windows didn't see it and DiskWizard wouldn't clone it.

So I painstakingly inspected my connections and then noticed that I had the jumper over the wrong pins! And I'd been SO CAREFUL to get it right. I changed the jumper and this time DiskWizard happily took me into the clone utility.

It took me about 30 seconds to figure out how to set up my custom partitions and volumes but it was as Dale says--all the partitions/volumes on the drive being cloned are listed on the clonee, with sizes proportionally increased to fill the new drive. The user can then adjust the sizes as desired, which I did. When you're ready to go, DiskWizard reboots the computer and restarts DiskWizard to do the deed.It was all automatic and all I had to do was wait.

I had a nearly impossible time removing the plastic SATA connector from the old drive. It just would not come off. I wonder if the connection melts a little over time and sort of welds itself onto the motherboard and drive connectors. I moved the old drive out of the bay and outside the computer to get a better look and grip on the SATA cable connector but to no avail. Finally my husband was able to yank it off the drive and amazingly, nothing was damaged. I gave up on removing the cable from the motherboard and just attached the other end to the drive. The new connectors were much easier to attach and remove from the new drive before I put it in the bay where the old drive was.

I had about 470 gigs unallocated on the new drive, in which I intend to make a volume for Win 7 when my copy arrives in October. However, I noticed that the clone did not make the extended partition fill all the remaining space after the volumes were cloned. So I ran my trusty Partition Commander and enlarged the extended partition to fill the rest of the drive. Took about five seconds! Then with Partition Commander I made a 170-gig volume (Drive H) and had it format the volume as FAT32. I use it for music and some video files I share with Linux. XP itself, of course, will not format FAT32 larger than 32 gigs, as far as I know. But Partition Commander did it happily and very quickly (probably uses Quick Format, as Dale recommends). I then restarted XP and moved about 100 gigs of stuff from the former Drive H on the PATA hard drive to the new Drive H on the new drive. I have one remaining NTFS volume on the PATA drive whose data needs to be moved to various volumes on the new SATA drive. Then I'll use that 500-gig PATA drive entirely for Linux.

So that's how it went. Once I got the jumper right, it was a very easy, very smooth job. Oh, by the way--Windows did not ask me to reactivate. I didn't expect it to, but you never know. I've done TONS of upgrades to XP computers and have never been asked to reactivate.
--Judy M.


----------------------------------------
Registered Linux User #397786
Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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#20 of 34

     Posted Sep-26 10:24 PM   
Judy M.
 
From  Judy M.  Posts 1346  Last 1:44 AM
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164671.20 Message 164671.20 replying to 164671.13 164671.13 ]    

Everything worked out as you said it would. It was an easy job and even my mandatory Stupid Mistakes didn't mess things up.

I forgot to boot with a Linux CD. The drivers for SATA are built into the kernel, as far as I know.

Thanks for the guidance along the way!
--Judy M.


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Registered Linux User #397786
Being productive with VectorLinux 6.0 Standard version, Deluxe Edition
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Hard Drives

Moving to new hard drive

  
 
     

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