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Interfaith Issues

What Language Did Jesus Speak?

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#1 of 223

     Posted Oct-23 1:06 AM   
mlkoutsky
 
From  mlkoutsky  Posts 554  Last 1:48 PM
To  nullopus000      [Msg # 168370.1 ]    

//His apostles had a handle on Greek and Latin. They were not as ignorant as you may think.//

So-called new testament was written in Greek not Latin.>>>>>

They were traveling through the Roman Empire, converting Roman citizens. It was the universal language of the time. Of course, they spoke some Latin.

Why do you think a Jewish Rabbi, in the Holy Land would not know Hebrew, the language of the Torah?

I'm happy for your financial success. However, most young Americans kissed a one income per houshold success plan away, when our economy became based on a dual income:laws of Supply and demand. Keep both parties working, keeps population production down, and this will not spell success for future generations.

Unchecked Capitalism was wrong, too, though.

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#2 of 223

     Posted Oct-23 2:18 AM   
Mel [Staff]
 
From  Mel [Staff]  Posts 18095  Last 12:27 PM
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168370.2 Message 168370.2 replying to 168370.1 168370.1 ]    

>>They were traveling through the Roman Empire, converting Roman citizens. It was the universal language of the time. Of course, they spoke some Latin.<<

This Christian website disagrees with you.
Link to http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/jgmgreek.htm
The language of the Roman Empire was not so much Latin as it was Greek. Thus in the first century after Christ Greek had become a world language.
Who is J. Gresham Machen?  Link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gresham_Machen




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#3 of 223

     Posted Oct-23 11:15 AM   
nullopus000
 
From  nullopus000  Posts 580  Last Nov-20
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168370.3 Message 168370.3 replying to 168370.1 168370.1 ]    

mlk:     //His apostles had a handle on Greek and Latin. They were not as ignorant as you may think.//

Opus:     <<<<So-called new testament was written in Greek not Latin.>>>>>

mlk:     //They were traveling through the Roman Empire, converting Roman citizens. It was the universal language of the time. Of course, they spoke some Latin.//

Then you and I aren't discussing the same people.  If the apostles/disciples existed, they spoke the language of their villages (Aramaic, possibly Hebrew, but Greek for sure to transact business).  The evangelizers were Gentiles who, according to the xn bible, spread into Greek speaking Asia Minor (e.g., Antioch, Ephesus, Cappadocia) where Greek was the lingua franca.  Paul's letter to the Roman church was written in Greek.  The so-called new testament was written in Greek.  Rome administered its Eastern Empire half in Greek.

//Why do you think a Jewish Rabbi, in the Holy Land would not know Hebrew, the language of the Torah?//

What Jewish rabbi?  The language of the Torah in 1st century CE Judea was Greek--the Septuagint.


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#4 of 223

     Posted Oct-23 8:46 PM   
nullopus000
 
From  nullopus000  Posts 580  Last Nov-20
To  Mel [Staff]      [Msg # 168370.4 Message 168370.4 replying to 168370.2 168370.2 ]    
//This Christian website disagrees with you.
Link to http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/jgmgreek.htm
The language of the Roman Empire was not so much Latin as it was Greek. Thus in the first century after Christ Greek had become a world language.
Who is J. Gresham Machen?  Link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gresham_Machen//

Thank you so much for these two links.
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#5 of 223

     Posted Oct-27 9:14 PM   
mlkoutsky
 
From  mlkoutsky  Posts 554  Last 1:48 PM
To  Mel [Staff]      [Msg # 168370.5 Message 168370.5 replying to 168370.2 168370.2 ]    

<<<<They were traveling through the Roman Empire, converting Roman citizens. It was the universal language of the time. Of course, they spoke some Latin.<<

This Christian website disagrees with you. >>>

Yes, Greek was used throughout the Mediterrainean World since the time of Alexander, but the Romans who came in, did speak and write in Latin. That is why you find artifacts from that time period in the Holy Land in Latin. Paul was a Roman citizen and educated so he would have spoken Latin.

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#6 of 223

     Posted Oct-27 9:23 PM   
mlkoutsky
 
From  mlkoutsky  Posts 554  Last 1:48 PM
To  nullopus000      [Msg # 168370.6 Message 168370.6 replying to 168370.3 168370.3 ]    

<<<What Jewish rabbi? The language of the Torah in 1st century CE Judea was Greek--the Septuagint.>>>

The Septuagint was the OT text from Alexandria, Egypt commissioned by Ptolomy for his library. The Torah was read in Hebrew in all the Synagogues. So, when Jesus started His ministry and He read from the Torah in the synogogue in Capurnaum,He would not be reading from the Greek version that was made for a Gentile Egyptian ruler. He would have read in the original Hebrew. One starts using the Septuagint after the destruction of the Temple, as a resource since the Romans destroyed most of the scrolls.

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#7 of 223

     Posted Oct-27 10:59 PM   
Véronique
 
From  Véronique  Posts 3555  Last 3:30 PM
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168370.7 Message 168370.7 replying to 168370.1 168370.1 ]    
>> They were traveling through the Roman Empire, converting Roman citizens. It was the universal language of the time. Of course, they spoke some Latin. <<

Actually, the universal language at the time was Greek.

>> Why do you think a Jewish Rabbi, in the Holy Land would not know Hebrew, the language of the Torah? <<

The spoken language of the time in Judea and Galilee was Aramaic, not Hebrew.  Hebrew was the language of the Torah, but not the language people spoke.

~ Véronique
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#8 of 223

     Posted Oct-28 9:05 AM   
Martin Alter
 
From  Martin Alter  Posts 1689  Last Nov-20
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168370.8 Message 168370.8 replying to 168370.5 168370.5 ]    
>>   Yes, Greek was used throughout the Mediterrainean World since the time of Alexander, but the Romans who came in, did speak and write in Latin.  <<

Mostly for official business.  The language of day to day life was Greek, according to most reputable scholars.
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#9 of 223

     Posted Oct-28 2:05 PM   
draypoker
 
From  draypoker  Posts 9868  Last 8:35 AM
To  Martin Alter      [Msg # 168370.9 Message 168370.9 replying to 168370.8 168370.8 ]    

Mostly for official business.  The language of day to day life was Greek, according to most reputable scholars.

Assuming any of the alleged biographical details are historical, Jesus grew up in Nazareth, the "Native Quarter" of Sepphoris, a Greek-speaking city. It is easy to believe he spoke Greek in order to do business in that city, which was being rebuilt after its punitive destruction. There would have been lots of work for carpenters, builders and architects. The word used to describe Joseph's profession  is Tekton, which could mean any of those.

Of course he would do business in the language of his customers.

No doubt Paul knew Latin as he is supposed to have travelled to the Latin-speaking part of the empire, at least if he reached Rome. But on Malta it would have been Phoenician, the ancestor of modern Maltese.

Most humans, outside the US and Britain, speak more than one language routinely.


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Information on non-carbon energy, Political Science and History
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#10 of 223

     Posted Oct-28 2:19 PM   
Martin Alter
 
From  Martin Alter  Posts 1689  Last Nov-20
To  draypoker      [Msg # 168370.10 Message 168370.10 replying to 168370.9 168370.9 ]    
You might wish to inform our correspondent.
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#11 of 223

     Posted Oct-28 2:31 PM   
George A
 
From  George A  Posts 10194  Last 10:36 AM
To  Martin Alter      [Msg # 168370.11 Message 168370.11 replying to 168370.10 168370.10 ]    
>>You might wish to inform our correspondent.<<

You can always try, but I've noticed that some correspondents simply put their metaphorical fingers in their ears -- or act like those NWA pilot who turned off ground communication.

They do not hear.  (Or read and process)


The method of "postulating" what we want has many advantages; 
they are the same as the advantages of theft over honest toil.

Bertrand Russell


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#12 of 223

     Posted Oct-28 2:49 PM   
Martin Alter
 
From  Martin Alter  Posts 1689  Last Nov-20
To  George A      [Msg # 168370.12 Message 168370.12 replying to 168370.11 168370.11 ]    
>>   You can always try, but I've noticed that some correspondents simply put their metaphorical fingers in their ears -- or act like those NWA pilot who turned off ground communication.

They do not hear.  (Or read and process)  <<

There seems to  be a fair amount of that going around, dontcha think?
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#13 of 223

     Posted Oct-28 2:50 PM   
draypoker
 
From  draypoker  Posts 9868  Last 8:35 AM
To  George A      [Msg # 168370.13 Message 168370.13 replying to 168370.11 168370.11 ]    

NWA pilot who turned off ground communication.

Snoozing.


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#14 of 223

     Posted Oct-28 4:43 PM   
George A
 
From  George A  Posts 10194  Last 10:36 AM
To  Martin Alter      [Msg # 168370.14 Message 168370.14 replying to 168370.12 168370.12 ]    
>>There seems to  be a fair amount of that going around, dontcha think?<<

Sometimes I think there's a recurring pandemic of stupid virus.


The method of "postulating" what we want has many advantages; 
they are the same as the advantages of theft over honest toil.

Bertrand Russell


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#15 of 223

     Posted Oct-29 9:02 AM   
draypoker
 
From  draypoker  Posts 9868  Last 8:35 AM
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168370.15 Message 168370.15 replying to 168370.5 168370.5 ]    

Yes, Greek was used throughout the Mediterrainean World since the time of Alexander, but the Romans who came in, did speak and write in Latin. That is why you find artifacts from that time period in the Holy Land in Latin. Paul was a Roman citizen and educated so he would have spoken Latin.

You really need to study some history as your picture of the past is not accurate.

Diocletianus split the empire into parts. The western empire used Latin officially. The eastern empire based on Constantinople (in Diocletian's time it was nearby Nicomedia) used Greek for almost all purposes. The last emperor in the east to use Latin officially was Justinianus whose summary of the Roman law was the last document in Latin. After his time everything was in greeak.

But ordinary people used a variety of languages. In Egypt most people spoke Coptic but there were also Greek speakers and Arabic speakers too. In large parts of what is now the Middle east or Levant Aramaic was the main language.

What language did Paul use? As he came from the East he is bound to have used Greek for his written work. Did he speak any other language? Probably Aramaic. It's quite likely he knew Latin too.

In so far as Jesus existed he would have learned Greek in Sepphoris, Aramaic for everyday use and any other languages from his voyages. (I suspect he might have picked up some Keltic from his visits to Britain where he got most of his ideas. During his visits to Balkh in Central Asia (near modern Mazar e Sharif) he could probably have got by in Greeak as that was the time of the Greco-Buddhist culture).


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#16 of 223

     Posted Oct-29 12:46 PM   
Martin Alter
 
From  Martin Alter  Posts 1689  Last Nov-20
To  George A      [Msg # 168370.16 Message 168370.16 replying to 168370.14 168370.14 ]    

>>   Sometimes I think there's a recurring pandemic of stupid virus.  <<

Did you read Charles Pierce's book, Idiot America?  It's well worth a look.  I've linked you to it.

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#17 of 223

     Posted Oct-29 11:31 PM   
mlkoutsky
 
From  mlkoutsky  Posts 554  Last 1:48 PM
To  draypoker      [Msg # 168370.17 Message 168370.17 replying to 168370.15 168370.15 ]    

<<<<<You really need to study some history as your picture of the past is not accurate.

Diocletianus split the empire into parts. The western empire used Latin officially. The eastern empire based on Constantinople (in Diocletian's time it was nearby Nicomedia) used Greek for almost all purposes.>>>

The beauty of the internet is that you can really check information easily. We all make mistakes. According to the sites I looked at, Diocletian(us) was emperor in 245AD -305 AD...so his "Tetrarchic System that divided his empire into two, came a bit after the life of Jesus and his apostles......

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#18 of 223

     Posted Oct-29 11:49 PM   
mlkoutsky
 
From  mlkoutsky  Posts 554  Last 1:48 PM
To  All      [Msg # 168370.18 Message 168370.18 replying to 168370.9 168370.9 ]    
If you check Acts 25:14-16, when Paul is giving an account of himself on trial....he mentions that when Christ spoke to him in a vision, Christ used Aramaic. Now, Christ also, read from the scroll of Isaiah in Capurnum, that was probably in Hebrew....I can't see how a person could earn the title "Rabbi" and not know Hebrew....also, Jesus spoke to the head of the Roman Guards and cured the man's servant and conversed with Pilot, the Roman from Gaul who was put in charge of Palestine. He also spent part of his youth in Egypt, before returning to Nazareth, so, He was probably fluent in a few languages. Being, G-d, probably helped, too....:)
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#19 of 223

     Posted Oct-30 12:10 AM   
Patricia O. [Stàff]
 
From  Patricia O. [Stàff]  Posts 11177  Last 12:47 PM
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168370.19 Message 168370.19 replying to 168370.18 168370.18 ]    
>>> I can't see how a person could earn the title "Rabbi" and not know Hebrew. <<<
As strange as it may seem, there was a period in Judaism when Hebrew was almost a lost language, which is why they originally translated the Septuagint.
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#20 of 223

     Posted Oct-30 12:14 AM   
Patricia O. [Stàff]
 
From  Patricia O. [Stàff]  Posts 11177  Last 12:47 PM
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168370.20 Message 168370.20 replying to 168370.17 168370.17 ]    
>>> According to the sites I looked at, Diocletian(us) was emperor in 245AD -305 AD...so his "Tetrarchic System that divided his empire into two, came a bit after the life of Jesus and his apostles...... <<<
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the eastern part spoke primarily Greek, and had done so since before the time of Jesus.
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Interfaith Issues

What Language Did Jesus Speak?

  
 
     

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