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Pentagon/State

A Question For the History Mavens

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#1 of 18

     Posted Nov-4 10:01 AM   
DickWeltz
 
From  DickWeltz  Posts 547  Last 10:36 AM
To  All      [Msg # 43743.1 ]    

But first, a photo taken recently. . .

And the question: Do you know of any insatnce in United States history when a Secretary of State (or any cabinet member, for that matter) when visitng a foreign country on official business dressed in the local costumery instead of normal American Western business dress?

Do you know of any who joined in a Muslim prayer ritual at the shrine of a Muslim saint (as depicted here)?

Seems to fit right in with Obama's bent-knee obeisance to the Saudi king, doesn't it?

Oh, what a proud country we once were.

 

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#2 of 18

     Posted Nov-4 10:44 AM   
Juan de los Palotes
 
From  Juan de los Palotes  Posts 233  Last 3:55 PM
To  DickWeltz      [Msg # 43743.2 Message 43743.2 replying to 43743.1 43743.1 ]    
It's called "appeasement". Chamberlain was an excellent example. 
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#3 of 18

     Posted Nov-4 11:21 AM   
Ted C Hall (SysOp)
 
From  Ted C Hall (SysOp)  Posts 923  Last 6:08 AM
To  DickWeltz      [Msg # 43743.3 Message 43743.3 replying to 43743.1 43743.1 ]    
>>Do you know of any who joined in a Muslim prayer ritual at the shrine of a Muslim saint (as depicted here)?<<

Once upon a time the United States expected others to accept it's personal freedoms, national ethics, and was willing to go to war for it's principles...

NOW... that sounds just like a Fairy Tale Story...

Ted C Hall
Republican/Crime/Debate This!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." - Ronald Reagan
Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' Vanity asks the question, 'Is it popular?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?'And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because one's conscience tells one that it is right.-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
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#4 of 18

     Posted Nov-4 4:50 PM   
Harmon Eggz
 
From  Harmon Eggz  Posts 2  Last Nov-6
To  DickWeltz      [Msg # 43743.4 Message 43743.4 replying to 43743.1 43743.1 ]    
I'm sure this never even phased you.
http://tinyurl.com/ylofepg
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#5 of 18

     Posted Nov-4 7:29 PM   
DickWeltz
 
From  DickWeltz  Posts 547  Last 10:36 AM
To  Harmon Eggz      [Msg # 43743.5 Message 43743.5 replying to 43743.4 43743.4 ]    

I'm sure this never even phased you.
http://tinyurl.com/ylofepg

Very few things faze me; and I didn't particularly approve of the gesture, although I think it's far from the submissive message conveyed by Hillary and Obama.


 

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#6 of 18

     Posted Nov-4 8:24 PM   
Carl Feick (SYSOP)
 
From  Carl Feick (SYSOP)  Posts 8879  Last 1:44 PM
To  DickWeltz      [Msg # 43743.6 Message 43743.6 replying to 43743.5 43743.5 ]    
The one was we are friends and equals vs the Hillary submission.  Hmm . . . Harmon needs to actually think about what he is trying to convey although he did better than many who drive by.
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#7 of 18

     Posted Nov-6 11:43 AM   
Ron Brandmayr
 
From  Ron Brandmayr  Posts 1448  Last 4:26 PM
To  DickWeltz      [Msg # 43743.7 Message 43743.7 replying to 43743.1 43743.1 ]    
And she's a champion of women's rights?
"Endure, Master Wayne. Take it. They'll hate you for it, but that's the point of Batman, he can be the outcast. He can make the choice that no one else can make, the right choice." --Alfred, from The Dark Knight

 

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#8 of 18

     Posted Nov-6 1:58 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 4  Last Nov-19
To  DickWeltz      [Msg # 43743.8 Message 43743.8 replying to 43743.1 43743.1 ]    
<<And the question: Do you know of any insatnce in United States history when a Secretary of State (or any cabinet member, for that matter) when visitng a foreign country on official business dressed in the local costumery instead of normal American Western business dress? >>

Yes. 

Another Secretary of State wearing a headscarf:



Edited Nov-6   by  Jim1

Edited Nov-6   by  Jim1
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#9 of 18

     Posted Nov-6 2:18 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 4  Last Nov-19
To  All      [Msg # 43743.9 Message 43743.9 replying to 43743.8 43743.8 ]    
There are also many lovely photographs of Mrs. Laura Bush,  Secretary of State Rice and others in appropriate attire that follow the cultural customs for mosques and the Vatican.   Each woman has been photographed with head coverings,  dark clothing,  and shoeless,  as the situation warranted.
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#10 of 18

     Posted Nov-6 11:26 PM   
Harmon Eggz
 
From  Harmon Eggz  Posts 2  Last Nov-6
To  Carl Feick (SYSOP)      [Msg # 43743.10 Message 43743.10 replying to 43743.6 43743.6 ]    

"Harmon needs to actually think about what he is trying to convey although he did better than many who drive by."

I would like to hang around this forum and not be known as a "drive-by", but its like watching the deck chairs being rearranged on the Titanic.

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#11 of 18

     Posted Nov-7 11:25 AM   
Carl Feick (SYSOP)
 
From  Carl Feick (SYSOP)  Posts 8879  Last 1:44 PM
To  Harmon Eggz      [Msg # 43743.11 Message 43743.11 replying to 43743.10 43743.10 ]    (Unread)
considering the lack of an actual fact backing your original post to which ultimately brought us to this point your claim lacks merit.
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#12 of 18

     Posted Nov-7 5:21 PM   
Dave Beers
 
From  Dave Beers  Posts 127  Last 9:58 PM
To  Carl Feick (SYSOP)      [Msg # 43743.12 Message 43743.12 replying to 43743.11 43743.11 ]    
The image of W and the Saudi King kissing looks photo-shopped but I think it did happen. 

Edited Nov-7   by  Dave Beers
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#13 of 18

     Posted Nov-7 10:04 PM   
Joe S.
 
From  Joe S.  Posts 8  Last Nov-13
To  Jim1      [Msg # 43743.13 Message 43743.13 replying to 43743.9 43743.9 ]    

"There are also many lovely photographs of Mrs. Laura Bush, Secretary of State Rice and others in appropriate attire that follow the cultural customs for mosques and the Vatican. Each woman has been photographed with head coverings, dark clothing, and shoeless, as the situation warranted."

So what? This discussion is about the Obama administration.

Vote American!
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#14 of 18

     Posted Nov-8 1:14 AM   
Ted C Hall (SysOp)
 
From  Ted C Hall (SysOp)  Posts 923  Last 6:08 AM
To  Joe S.      [Msg # 43743.14 Message 43743.14 replying to 43743.13 43743.13 ]    (Unread)
>>So what?<<

This whole discussion might be as interesting as moving the deck chairs to you... making one wonder what it is that draws you back...

However, the phrase "So What?" seems to indicated something of a dismissive attitude... and a complete miss on the significance of that particular post...

The point that you so obviously missed was that Diplomacy, while in actuality being the art of saying "Good Doggy" whilst reaching for a rock, sometimes requires respect for and observance of local customs...

The Obama administration, while being the poorest excuse for a presidency in my lifetime, is doing nothing out of the ordinary when the SecState makes an effort to show respect...  The State Department's primary duty being that of saying "Good Doggy" in many different ways...

OTOH, a President is the direct Head of State... and as such should NEVER, EVER, bow, kneel, or otherwise show subservience to any other Head of State, temporal, or religious figure...  Another fact of US History that our pretender in The White House is apparently unaware of...

In your case; though, A bit more thought and a slightly less dismissive attitude... and some effort at widening your knowledge base.... might well result in your becoming a welcome asset to this forum...

Ted C Hall
Republican/Crime/Debate This!
"there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because one's conscience tells one that it is right.-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
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#15 of 18

     Posted Nov-8 8:30 AM   
Carl Feick (SYSOP)
 
From  Carl Feick (SYSOP)  Posts 8879  Last 1:44 PM
To  Dave Beers      [Msg # 43743.15 Message 43743.15 replying to 43743.12 43743.12 ]    
The image of W and the Saudi King kissing looks photo-shopped but I think it did happen.
You are correct, in my reading it did happen.  I was wrong in that Harmon had his facts correct however his inference of a negative meaning of those facts was spot on.  That was the gist of my original post and I would have been wiser having re-read and then commented.
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#16 of 18

     Posted Nov-8 8:37 AM   
Carl Feick (SYSOP)
 
From  Carl Feick (SYSOP)  Posts 8879  Last 1:44 PM
To  Harmon Eggz      [Msg # 43743.16 Message 43743.16 replying to 43743.10 43743.10 ]    (Unread)
My post #11 was incorrect in saying you had your facts wrong.  we disagree on interpretation of said facts.
As I previously stated I have no problem of the heads of State meeting as equals, which Bush did.
I also have no problem with women wearing headscarfs respecting the religion of others.  Now if she prayed in the Muslim fashion at the Mosque and that was diferent from how she would pray normally then I get concerned.
I also draw the line at the burka.
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#17 of 18

     Posted Nov-8 11:53 AM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 4  Last Nov-19
To  Ted C Hall (SysOp)      [Msg # 43743.17 Message 43743.17 replying to 43743.14 43743.14 ]    
<<a President is the direct Head of State... and as such should NEVER, EVER, bow, kneel, or otherwise show subservience to any other Head of State, temporal, or religious figure... >>

Therefore President George W. Bush was in error when he kissed the Pope's ring?

<<Another fact of US History that our pretender in The White House is apparently unaware of...>>

''pretender'?   The electoral college results were a decisive 365 for Barack Obama and 173 for John McCain.


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#18 of 18

     Posted Nov-8 12:08 PM   
Jim1
 
From  Jim1  Posts 4  Last Nov-19
To  Joe S.      [Msg # 43743.18 Message 43743.18 replying to 43743.13 43743.13 ]    (Unread)
<<So what? This discussion is about the Obama administration.>>

The discussion seems to be more about history rather than the Obama administration in particular.  

There are very lovely photographs of Mrs. Laura Bush dressed in culturally appropriate black clothing, with her head covered,  while on official visits to the Vatican and mosques in the Middle East and Bush administration female appointees have also been photographed wearing head coverings while visiting Islamic centers in the U.S. too  There are several official photographs going back to the Reagan administrations that illustrate offical representatives of the U.S. have always acknowledged local cultural and religious traditions around the world.
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Pentagon/State

A Question For the History Mavens

  
 
     
 
 

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