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Climatology

Weather Stations by siteing quality

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#1 of 5

     Posted Oct-17 8:55 AM   
Ted Hall (Wizop)
 
From  Ted Hall (Wizop)  Posts 5  Last Oct-29
To  All      [Msg # 14561.1 ]    
As an old fashioned Weather Sensor tech I've been pounding the fact that Weather Stations are quite often overgrown by encroaching urbanization and giving at best questionable data for several decades...

FINALLY someone has completed a partial census of US Sites and reported on their compliance with NOAA's siting criteria...

Station quality ratings obtained from NOAA/NCDC via this source:

Climate Reference Network Rating Guide - adopted from NCDC Climate Reference Network Handbook, 2002, specifications for siting (section 2.2.1) of NOAA's new Climate Reference Network:

Class 1 (CRN1)- Flat and horizontal ground surrounded by a clear surface with a slope below 1/3 (<19deg). Grass/low vegetation ground cover <10 centimeters high. Sensors located at least 100 meters from artificial heating or reflecting surfaces, such as buildings, concrete surfaces, and parking lots. Far from large bodies of water, except if it is representative of the area, and then located at least 100 meters away. No shading when the sun elevation >3 degrees.

Class 2 (CRN2) - Same as Class 1 with the following differences. Surrounding Vegetation <25 centimeters. No artificial heating sources within 30m. No shading for a sun elevation >5deg.

Class 3 (CRN3) (error >=1C) - Same as Class 2, except no artificial heating sources within 10 meters.

Class 4 (CRN4) (error >= 2C) - Artificial heating sources <10 meters.

Class 5 (CRN5) (error >= 5C) - Temperature sensor located next to/above an artificial heating source, such a building, roof top, parking lot, or concrete surface."
Having spent a goodly portion of my time in the Engineering Installation field as a tech or Team  Chief putting in "Class 1" sites I'm actually shocked to see that anything but a "Class 2" is considered worth collecting data...

OTOH, when they collect that data they are allowed to include a "correction factor" to "cancel" out the effects of A/C, heating from surrounding buildings, asphalt paving in the sensor's clear zone, buses, trucks and other traffic in the streets and the dozens of other heat sources (including humans giving off their 86 degree skin temps, for those who are getting ready to add AGW protests<G>)

From the raw numbers 98% of the sites in use have some excuse to include a correction factor in their readings... 

Remember too that the whole "Global Warming"/"Climate Change" issue hangs on temperature differences SMALLER than the average error in the measurements being used!

Looking at the actual pictures of the sites being used to prove "Global Warming" is an exercise in futility since the least technically inclined can recognize the "Urban Heat Sink" sources of increased temperatures...

I haven't checked for a list of "correction factors" on this site...  but my previous attempts to come up with the "scientific" basis for any in current use have been futile in the past...

Look, read, see what YOU think!

Ted C Hall
Republican/Crime/Debate This!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." - Ronald Reagan
Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' Vanity asks the question, 'Is it popular?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?'And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because one's conscience tells one that it is right.-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
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#2 of 5

     Posted Oct-18 12:29 AM   
R. A. Jones
 
From  R. A. Jones  Posts 3  Last Nov-21
To  Ted Hall (Wizop)      [Msg # 14561.2 Message 14561.2 replying to 14561.1 14561.1 ]    
Ted,

    Shocking -- Utterly Shocking! ... but not unexpected from both technical and human standpoints.

    Slightly off the subject but related to the global warming issue... Some years ago, I heard a report, but I do not remember the sources at this point, that NASA data had revealed an approximately average rise in the surface temperatures of Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and Pluto, of 1ish deg. C. Mercury was apparently almost 2 degs. C warmer and Neptune appeared to have warmed around 0.5 C. All this was over around the same time period over which Earth temperatures had been watched closely enough to actually detect an approximate 1 deg C rise --- about 25 years, I think.

    The report was repeated by about five commentators including one for the BBC, and then just simply vanished -- POOF! But one of the commentators asked the obvious question ... "What does this mean? Are we to believe that Wealthy Jupiterians are flying the fancy, fuel-guzzling, SUV type space vehicles around all these planets, polluting them with nasty Green-house gasses?
    More seriously, such a report begs the question of why the entire solar system seems to be heating slightly on a par with our own planet.

    Oh, Sorry! Blew Another Hole In The Global Warming Ozone
         Rollie
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#3 of 5

     Posted Oct-18 1:22 AM   
Ted Hall (Wizop)
 
From  Ted Hall (Wizop)  Posts 5  Last Oct-29
To  R. A. Jones      [Msg # 14561.3 Message 14561.3 replying to 14561.2 14561.2 ]    
>>Oh, Sorry! Blew Another Hole In The Global Warming Ozone Rollie<<

You're forgiven  Rollie...

I'm ready to admit that warming has occurred, but I remember too that our observations of those sister planets showed a correspondence to solar activity and little else...

I was assuming that our SUV's were destroying the earth so quickly that the other planets were following the changes in sympathy...<G>

Oddly enough the astrophysicists that track and publish solar activity have been nearly ignored in the US...  

Looking at solar data and temperature changes pretty clearly shows activity that drives temp changes, resultant CO2 effects (i.e. oceans absorbing excesses in colder climates and releasing it when warming occurs...

When I get to address groups of young folks it's pretty easy to explain the "Water Cycle" and get them to appreciate the wonderful thing that is the "Green House Effect"

I like the fact that our climate is moderated to something less than a 80 degree change most days...   The moon's daily climate is a bit excessive for my tastes on both ends<VBG>

In the 70s I can remember riding to work at 19 degrees and having the noontime temps in excess of 85...   Here in Montana I've see it go from -6 to over 70 in a day...

For some reason most folks can associate those changes with solar energy input... but some can't seem to understand that NOTHING in the solar system has the influence and control on our water-zone climate as the sun.

Ted C Hall
Republican/Crime/Debate This!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." - Ronald Reagan
Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' Vanity asks the question, 'Is it popular?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?'And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because one's conscience tells one that it is right.-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
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#4 of 5

     Posted Oct-18 2:16 AM   
R. A. Jones
 
From  R. A. Jones  Posts 3  Last Nov-21
To  Ted Hall (Wizop)      [Msg # 14561.4 Message 14561.4 replying to 14561.3 14561.3 ]    
Ted,

    Even the earth itself may be working against us... I've heard varying reports that the last one to five explosive volcanic eruptions have placed in our atmosphere more greenhouse gasses and pollution than the entire past 300 or so years of our "industrial age."
    Two things people can't grasp are that: 1) Humans are a part of nature, whether or not God (or who/what ever) "created" us. 2) Nature is so much better at apparently messing up its own house than we humans have ever been.  The reason for my saying "apparently" is because the cycles of nature over the many hundreds of millions (OK, Billions) of years have shown that what has appeared to be a major screw up short term, long term works out in its own favor for the best over all.

    We're Just Along For The Ride
         Rollie
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#5 of 5

     Posted Oct-18 9:46 AM   
Ted Hall (Wizop)
 
From  Ted Hall (Wizop)  Posts 5  Last Oct-29
To  R. A. Jones      [Msg # 14561.5 Message 14561.5 replying to 14561.4 14561.4 ]    
>>We're Just Along For The Ride<<

You got that right!

Ted C Hall
Republican/Crime/Debate This!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." - Ronald Reagan
Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' Vanity asks the question, 'Is it popular?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?'And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because one's conscience tells one that it is right.-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Climatology

Weather Stations by siteing quality

  
 
     

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