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In the News !

* Is Calif. Facing Fiscal Collapse?

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#1 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 10:47 AM   
John Linendoll
 
From  John Linendoll  Posts 1447  Last Feb-5
To  All      [Msg # 17975.1 ]    

Is Calif. Facing Fiscal Collapse?

America's most populous state now faces a budget deficit which could collapse entire nations -- more than $500 for every man woman and child in California.  And that's just the deficit, not the parts of the budget which are already funded.  How do you think that may impact the rest of our nation? 

It's not that anyone expected the Golden State's financial situation to be good.  But months of belt-tightening had led many to believe that the budget shortfall would be more along the order of $4 to $7 billion.

Instead, the Los Angeles Times reports it has learned the deficit will be $21 billion -- and some put that number at $24 billion.

That could come to around $600 for every person in the state -- much more than a thousand dollars for every family.

And, unlike our federal government, the state can't employ deficit spending to get through tough times.

Moreover, fractious politicians virtually assure a protracted fight over the issue in the state's legislature.

What role -- if any -- do you see for President Barack Obama and our federal government in this looming crisis?

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#2 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 11:05 AM   
John Linendoll
 
From  John Linendoll  Posts 1447  Last Feb-5
To  All      [Msg # 17975.2 Message 17975.2 replying to 17975.1 17975.1 ]    

From this morning's Los Angeles Times:

California faces a projected deficit of $21 billion

The legislative budget analyst's projection, to be released Wednesday, threatens to send Sacramento back into gridlock and force more broad cuts to state programs....

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#3 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 11:08 AM   
John Linendoll
 
From  John Linendoll  Posts 1447  Last Feb-5
To  All      [Msg # 17975.3 Message 17975.3 replying to 17975.2 17975.2 ]    

And, as if its existing budgetary problems were not enough, this news just broke on the Daily 49er:

CSU to request additional $884M from state

The board of trustees is expected to approve the 2010-11 budget proposal Wednesday....

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#4 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 11:15 AM   
John Linendoll
 
From  John Linendoll  Posts 1447  Last Feb-5
To  All      [Msg # 17975.4 Message 17975.4 replying to 17975.3 17975.3 ]    

Update from Reuters:

California governor against tax hikes to close budget gap

California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger said on Wednesday he opposed tax hikes to close the state's budget gap, projected to be bigger than expected in the next fiscal year....

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#5 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 12:34 PM   
Gretchen, EA
 
From  Gretchen, EA  Posts 1802  Last 11:07 AM
To  John Linendoll      [Msg # 17975.5 Message 17975.5 replying to 17975.4 17975.4 ]    

California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger said on Wednesday he opposed tax hikes to close the state's budget gap, projected to be bigger than expected in the next fiscal year....

Well, of course he opposes tax hikes .. he's a Republican. And he came into office with a promise (which he kept) of lowering the vehicle license fee.

So, California has a low VLF, low property taxes (from Prop 13, passed years ago) and they won't raise income taxes. Meanwhile everything is more expensive every day.  What's a state supposed to do?

 

 

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#6 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 1:27 PM   
K. Barthelmess
 
From  K. Barthelmess  Posts 133  Last 3:51 PM
To  Gretchen, EA      [Msg # 17975.6 Message 17975.6 replying to 17975.5 17975.5 ]    

Gretchen -

> Meanwhile everything is more expensive every day. What's a state supposed to do?

Why should CA be any different from the individuals who reside there? When your income drops below your expenditures, you cut back on the latter. Raising taxes, particularly in times when individuals are having problems managing their own budgets, is the height of idiocy. Maybe it's time for the people and the legislature take a look at those expenses and decide which should be reduced or eliminated.

Kurt

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#7 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 2:23 PM   
travers1962
 
From  travers1962  Posts 66  Last Feb-4
To  John Linendoll      [Msg # 17975.7 Message 17975.7 replying to 17975.4 17975.4 ]    
The term limits enacted didn't help.  Each new guy or girl wants to get their name on something right away!   Also the endless initiatives and the property tax freeze (which was stupidly drafted to protect commercial property as well as grandma's house) really handcuff the state.  Government emp[loyee salaries are incredibly high with excessive benefits with some cops earning 180k in a year!  Lastly, the prison system is a huge drain as is the social burdens of the illegals and the flight from the state of the producing class.  I see no fix.
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#8 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 7:12 PM   
Frank
 
From  Frank  Posts 563  Last Feb-8
To  K. Barthelmess      [Msg # 17975.8 Message 17975.8 replying to 17975.6 17975.6 ]    
>> Maybe it's time for the people and the legislature take a look at those expenses and decide which should be reduced or eliminated. <<

Agreed. I can't remember how many times in the last several years the Governor and other politicians have complained about a budget deficit, and things (closing state parks, laying off personnel, closing DMV 3 times every month, raising the VLF, etc.) have been done to solve the problems. Then we hear that there's another deficit. What happened to the money we just spent?


- Frank
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#9 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 11:33 PM   
Jon Woolf
 
From  Jon Woolf  Posts 326  Last 10:41 AM
To  travers1962      [Msg # 17975.9 Message 17975.9 replying to 17975.7 17975.7 ]    
>> Also the endless initiatives and the property tax freeze (which was stupidly drafted to protect commercial property as well as grandma's house) really handcuff the state.  <<

That's a feature, not a bug. 

California is a shining, glorious example of what happens when spendthrift liberals gain control of a government.  The citizens tried to stop the spending spree, by any means available.  Hence the various anti-tax initiatives and propositions.  But even as they were passing those initiatives, the state's voters and unions continued to demand more expensive programs and elect liberal legislators who would pass those programs.  The perfect recipe for fiscal disaster, and now it's time to pay the piper.  I have no sympathy.  A collapse in California would demonstrate once and for all that liberalism is unaffordable, now and for all times to come.  I'd be perfectly willing to let them drown in the vat of financial aqua regia they've created, if not for the fact that they'd probably pull the rest of us down with them. 

The state's only chance is to elect a completely new legislature that can make the hard choices involved in truly cutting the budget -- up to and including voiding the union contracts and bargaining agreements that it can no longer fulfill.  But I think the chance of that happening is about the same as Barry Lackwit ordering a full air campaign against Iran's nuclear weapons program, then introducing a new program of major cuts in federal taxes and spending. 

-- JSW
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#10 of 54

     Posted Nov-18 11:38 PM   
Jon Woolf
 
From  Jon Woolf  Posts 326  Last 10:41 AM
To  Frank      [Msg # 17975.10 Message 17975.10 replying to 17975.8 17975.8 ]    
>> Then we hear that there's another deficit. What happened to the money we just spent? <<

What happened is that they cut spending by small amounts in some places, then raised it by much larger amounts in other places.  Sort of like dropping a level on your cable TV, saving $50 a month, then using the "savings" to buy a new car with a payment of $300 a month.   

-- JSW
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#11 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 12:10 PM   
spacescrew
 
From  spacescrew  Posts 1  Last Nov-19
To  Gretchen, EA      [Msg # 17975.11 Message 17975.11 replying to 17975.5 17975.5 ]    
Live within your means. charge the same tax to govt and state employees as the general plubic.
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#12 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 12:18 PM   
travers1962
 
From  travers1962  Posts 66  Last Feb-4
To  Jon Woolf      [Msg # 17975.12 Message 17975.12 replying to 17975.9 17975.9 ]    
I agree with every point you make.  But there are too many whack jobs in California who do not understand that there are costs to things.  They want to drive BMW SUVs but refuse to allow drilling.  They want no new construction but want a beach house with a view.  They don't like a controlled border between Mexico but don't want a tax increase to pay for all the social services for the illegals.  I fear the federal government will always bail them out.  Cali's eceonomy is too big.
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#13 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 12:24 PM   
Gretchen, EA
 
From  Gretchen, EA  Posts 1802  Last 11:07 AM
To  K. Barthelmess      [Msg # 17975.13 Message 17975.13 replying to 17975.6 17975.6 ]    

Maybe it's time for the people and the legislature take a look at those expenses and decide which should be reduced or eliminated.

I agree with you, Kurt, but not with the Governor's principle that cuts should be made to the youngest and weakest citizens.

Cutting home health aides to the elderly poor will only mean that they have to go to state-funded nursing homes; a much more expensive option.

Cutting education means that we'll have to import another group of Austrians to govern our state. <g>

Nobody's talking about cutting the state-paid auto expenses for the legislators, or for lowering the number of layers of administrative assistants. They seem to be more interested in making janitors and social workers go on unpaid furlough days.

 

 

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#14 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 12:45 PM   
K. Barthelmess
 
From  K. Barthelmess  Posts 133  Last 3:51 PM
To  Gretchen, EA      [Msg # 17975.14 Message 17975.14 replying to 17975.13 17975.13 ]    

Gretchen -

I'm pretty sure that you and others can come up with a long list of other things (besides legislators' auto expenses) that could be cut without significantly damaging the more vulnerable. I'll predict, however, that those cuts will not be made. Instead they'll cut the really necessary services to persuade people that taxes really do have to be raised.

Kurt

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#15 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 2:11 PM   
4merCL
 
From  4merCL  Posts 4762  Last 4:01 PM
To  Gretchen, EA      [Msg # 17975.15 Message 17975.15 replying to 17975.13 17975.13 ]    

>>  I agree with you, Kurt, but not with the Governor's principle that cuts should be made to the youngest and weakest citizens.   <<

The governor of your state, Gretchen, is applying a very rational calculus.

The youngest among us are too young to vote, and weakest are least likely to fight back or exact retribution at the ballot box.

Best regards,  4merCL

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#16 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 4:30 PM   
Tuppence
 
From  Tuppence  Posts 434  Last Jan-19
To  travers1962      [Msg # 17975.16 Message 17975.16 replying to 17975.12 17975.12 ]    

> But there are too many whack jobs in California<

I live in Calfornia but I have been in AZ for the last 4 months and every night on the news they wring their hands about the huge deficit they have. Second only to CA (on a per capita basis I assume). Meanwhile the Republicans in the legislature have thrown down the gauntlet and declared there will be no new taxes and the Dems have also said they have already cut services to the bone and there will be no more cuts. I guess they must all be imported whack jobs from California.

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#17 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 4:37 PM   
travers1962
 
From  travers1962  Posts 66  Last Feb-4
To  Tuppence      [Msg # 17975.17 Message 17975.17 replying to 17975.16 17975.16 ]    
No state has a monopoly on "whack jobs"!
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#18 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 4:43 PM   
travers1962
 
From  travers1962  Posts 66  Last Feb-4
To  Jon Woolf      [Msg # 17975.18 Message 17975.18 replying to 17975.9 17975.9 ]    
Also the iniative process just kills California.  Remember the "three strikes" rule?  Sounds great to the man on the street but it came with absolutly no provision for paying for all the additional prison population!
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#19 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 4:59 PM   
Tuppence
 
From  Tuppence  Posts 434  Last Jan-19
To  travers1962      [Msg # 17975.19 Message 17975.19 replying to 17975.18 17975.18 ]    

>Also the iniative process just kills California.<

I agree with you on this. It is far too easy to get initiatives on the ballot in CA. One side effect is that the voter's handbook every major election year looks like a Manhattan phone book.

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#20 of 54

     Posted Nov-19 5:01 PM   
travers1962
 
From  travers1962  Posts 66  Last Feb-4
To  Tuppence      [Msg # 17975.20 Message 17975.20 replying to 17975.19 17975.19 ]    
Ha! (phonebook joke)
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* Is Calif. Facing Fiscal Collapse?

  
 
     

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