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American Issues

America's Direction

Print Discussion

#1 of 41 Posted Nov-1 10:05 AM

From elcondor1776 Posts 1054 Last Nov-7
To All [Msg # 213475.1 ]

In 2008, then Presidential candidate Barrack Obama promised our nation change. The fact is that our nation has been changing for decades not at the hand Barrack Obama but by people who through their own actions reckless or otherwise have forced many changes through out society for better or for worse. The question I ask myself is, are we had headed in the right direction? How much is attributed to Barack Obama and how much can be attributed to society as a whole?

http://moreoldfortyfives.com/TakeMeBackToTheSixties.htm

#2 of 41 Posted Nov-2 5:09 AM

From Michael H. Posts 3319 Last Nov-21
To elcondor1776 [Msg # 213475.2 213475.1 ] (Unread)

>> The question I ask myself is, are we had headed in the right direction? <<

Yes, for once.

>> How much is attributed to Barack Obama and how much can be attributed to society as a whole? <<

Most of it is due to the fact that society as a whole has chosen a new direction which is illustrated by society's choice of Barack Obama as the nation's leader to move the nation in this new direction.

"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."
-- Michael Steele, Chairman of the Republican National Committee, Feb 13th, 2009

Free Your Mind. Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus

#3 of 41 Posted Nov-3 2:49 PM

From gordonhofer Posts 31261 Last Nov-21
To Michael H. [Msg # 213475.3 213475.2 ]

>> The question I ask myself is, are we had headed in the right direction? <<

Yes, for once.

According to the RealClear Politics average, 61% of the population disagree with you.

society's choice of Barack Obama as the nation's leader to move the nation in this new direction.

Even according to Pollster.com as of 10 months after his inauguration 54% of the population say we're on the wrong track, and that number is rising since April.

#4 of 41 Posted Nov-3 5:43 PM

From Poorch3 Posts 2013 Last Nov-13
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213475.4 213475.3 ]

>>>"RealClear Politics"......"Pollster.com" <<<

Oh Gordon,still rumaging through the trash to find and then clutch at crappy polls asking skewed questions financed
by questionable deep pocket dingoes of the Right?

Obama has either won over or strengthened his support among the most educated and/or wisdom blessed,(based on life experience)citizens of this nation*.
Your negative vibes and wishes about the methods,policies and abilities of our young President blind you to the competence,confidence and construtive actions that have been the hallmark of this new Administration.

You listen too much to zany Fox and screwballs on talk Radio.

* based on the poll findings of: "We Really Know What's Going On Poll Corporation" of Naples Florida.

#5 of 41 Posted Nov-3 5:59 PM

From corlisskip Posts 8176 Last Nov-20
To elcondor1776 [Msg # 213475.5 213475.1 ] (Unread)

The question I ask myself is, are we had headed in the right direction?

We are constantly evolving and that's a positive thing.

I love your link to the best '60's recap I think I've ever seen. It was sent to me by an old friend earlier this yr...............

That era was indeed "the end of the innocence", and I don't think that's a bad thing.

How much is attributed to Barack Obama and how much can be attributed to society as a whole?

<G> Change will happen....always has and always will. It's the nature of our existence....it's life. Obama is a symbol of who we are at this time in our evolution.....

Corliss

#6 of 41 Posted Nov-3 8:31 PM

From Michael H. Posts 3319 Last Nov-21
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213475.6 213475.3 ]

>> According to the RealClear Politics average, 61% of the population disagree with you. <<

We were asked for our opinions, Gordon, and the only person I poll to get my opinion is me.

"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."
Michael Steele
Chairman of the
Republican National Committee
Feb 13th, 2009

Free Your Mind.
Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus

#7 of 41 Posted Nov-3 11:22 PM

From gordonhofer Posts 31261 Last Nov-21
To Poorch3 [Msg # 213475.7 213475.4 ]

Oh Gordon,still rumaging through the trash to find and then clutch at crappy polls asking skewed questions financed
by questionable deep pocket dingoes of the Right?

Very well. Suppose you provide some polls that show the opinion of the people going in the direction of Obama leading the country in the right direction.

#8 of 41 Posted Nov-3 11:26 PM

From gordonhofer Posts 31261 Last Nov-21
To Michael H. [Msg # 213475.8 213475.6 ]

>> According to the RealClear Politics average, 61% of the population disagree with you. <<

We were asked for our opinions, Gordon, and the only person I poll to get myopinion is me.

Of course. And the fact that you're out of step with most of the public means nothing. You are, of course, more perspicacious than the rest of the country, aren't you?

#9 of 41 Posted Nov-3 11:41 PM

From Michael H. Posts 3319 Last Nov-21
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213475.9 213475.8 ]

>> Of course. And the fact that you're out of step with most of the public means nothing. You are, of course, more perspicacious than the rest of the country, aren't you? <<

Yes, actually I am.

:)

"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."
Michael Steele
Chairman of the
Republican National Committee
Feb 13th, 2009

Free Your Mind.
Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus

#10 of 41 Posted Nov-4 8:50 AM

From John Clifton (Sysop) Posts 23875 Last Nov-21
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213475.10 213475.3 ]

<gh> According to the RealClear Politics average, 61% of the population disagree with you.

'Hofer, the empire is dying and the American people will have to face reality before things get better. "Yes We Can!" has no more validity than "Morning in America." Heck, we can't even take care of our sick people because we don't have the cajones to take on the HMOs, doctors, and drug companies feeding at the trough.

#11 of 41 Posted Nov-4 9:47 AM

From gordonhofer Posts 31261 Last Nov-21
To John Clifton (Sysop) [Msg # 213475.11 213475.10 ]

<gh> According to the RealClear Politics average, 61% of the population disagree with you.

'Hofer, the empire is dying and the American people will have to face reality before things get better.

Exactly why it's worthwhile to correct Haggerty's error.

#12 of 41 Posted Nov-4 10:06 AM

From John Clifton (Sysop) Posts 23875 Last Nov-21
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213475.12 213475.11 ]

<JC> 'Hofer, the empire is dying and the American people will have to face reality before things get better.

<gh> Exactly why it's worthwhile to correct Haggerty's error.

Rather than seeming to gloat over the failure of the Demos' version of "Morning in America," how about coming up with some positive answers about what we can do?

Consider Boehner's bullspit about "health care we can afford".... LINK

The guy saying we can't afford to have a universal privatized system while not even mentioning assh*les feeding at the health care trough (HMOs conniving to limit competition, doctors going for high pay, drug companies charging Americans more than folks in other countries, ambulance chasing lawyers et al) isn't constructive. I know he's just playing politics, but we shouldn't be defending him any more than Demos defend what's going on with the so-called public option.

Let's send Boehner and his pals a message: we won't support you unless you come up with an privatized universal alternative.

#13 of 41 Posted Nov-4 10:17 AM

From gordonhofer Posts 31261 Last Nov-21
To John Clifton (Sysop) [Msg # 213475.13 213475.12 ]

<JC> 'Hofer, the empire is dying and the American people will have to face reality before things get better.

<gh> Exactly why it's worthwhile to correct Haggerty's error.

Rather than seeming to gloat over the failure of the Demos' version of "Morning in America," how about coming up with some positive answers about what we can do?

Well, mostly because the subject of the thread is "America's Direction," and in the second post Haggerty made a claim that is at odds with 2/3 of the country. As a service to him, I thought I'd point it out.

(Is it "gloating" when you correct a student's paper?)

Let's send Boehner and his pals a message: we won't support you unless you come up with an privatized universal alternative.

Before such an idea would even be considered, the liberal drive toward socialized medicine needs to be arrested.

#14 of 41 Posted Nov-4 11:13 AM

From John Clifton (Sysop) Posts 23875 Last Nov-21
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213475.14 213475.13 ]

<JC> Let's send Boehner and his pals a message: we won't support you unless you come up with an privatized universal alternative.

<gh> Before such an idea would even be considered, the liberal drive toward socialized medicine needs to be arrested.

It won't work that way, 'hofer. Boehner is happy to collect our vote and see ObamaCare become law. Unless he and his GOP pals come up with a reasonable alternative, not just the bs about "health care we can afford," your dream of halting a "liberal drive toward socialized medicine" doesn't have a hope in hell.

#15 of 41 Posted Nov-4 11:24 AM

From gordonhofer Posts 31261 Last Nov-21
To John Clifton (Sysop) [Msg # 213475.15 213475.14 ]

<JC> Let's send Boehner and his pals a message: we won't support you unless you come up with an privatized universal alternative.

<gh> Before such an idea would even be considered, the liberal drive toward socialized medicine needs to be arrested.

It won't work that way, 'hofer. Boehner is happy to collect our vote and see ObamaCare become law.

Of course it won't work that way. Libs will never be willing to consider anything but socialized medicine while they have a majority. Just out of curiosity, how will Boehner collect our vote while ObamaCare becomes law?

your dream of halting a "liberal drive toward socialized medicine" doesn't have a hope in hell.

I don't recall saying it was a dream of mine. I said it would be a prerequisite for the consideration of an alternative. Or do you somehow believe the libs are willing to place socialized medicine and privatized universal care on the table at the same time?

#16 of 41 Posted Nov-4 11:35 AM

From John Clifton (Sysop) Posts 23875 Last Nov-21
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213475.16 213475.15 ]

<gh> Libs will never be willing to consider anything but socialized medicine while they have a majority.

I think they might have to consider an alternative if the GOP could put something forward like the privatized health care in the Netherlands.

<gh> Just out of curiosity, how will Boehner collect our vote while ObamaCare becomes law?

We vote for him because we're p*ssed off about ObamaCare.

<JC> Unless he and his GOP pals come up with a reasonable alternative, not just the bs about "health care we can afford," your dream of halting a "liberal drive toward socialized medicine" doesn't have a hope in hell.

<gh> I don't recall saying it was a dream of mine. I said it would be a prerequisite for the consideration of an alternative.

Boehner must push back against ObamaCare with an alternative.

<gh> Or do you somehow believe the libs are willing to place socialized medicine and privatized universal care on the table at the same time?

Liberals still have support from the center for ObamaCare, even with the public option. I think the only way Republicans will peel off enough of the center to make Demos think twice as they did 15 years ago is to come up with a meaningful alternative.

Edited Nov-4 by John Clifton (Sysop)

#17 of 41 Posted Nov-4 12:01 PM

From gordonhofer Posts 31261 Last Nov-21
To John Clifton (Sysop) [Msg # 213475.17 213475.16 ]

<gh> Libs will never be willing to consider anything but socialized medicine while they have a majority.

I think they might have to consider an alternative if the GOP could put something forward like the privatized health care in the Netherlands.

It's interesting that your ideal continues to be a three year-old system in a country with a total population less than the combined totals of our 5 largest cities or less than Florida alone. And while insurance is sold by private insurers, the state pays for low income people and 5% of the premiums for everyone. That's in a country whose total tax on a family of four is 68% higher than ours.

<gh> Or do you somehow believe the libs are willing to place socialized medicine and privatized universal care on the table at the same time?

Liberals still have support from the center for ObamaCare, even with the public option.

If that were enough, Reid wouldn't have just put the whole thing off until next year, by which time he and Madame Pelosi hope to browbeat enough Blue Dogs to go along.

#18 of 41 Posted Nov-4 12:19 PM

From Kevin(Sysop) Posts 10077 Last Nov-21
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213475.18 213475.15 ]

Libs will never be willing to consider anything but socialized medicine while they have a majority.//

We might be able to discuss that question if someone would actually propose "socialized medicine" somewhere in this process.

Kevin

“Hate is not overcome by hate; by love (metta) alone is hate appeased. This is an eternal law.”-Guatama Buddha

#19 of 41 Posted Nov-4 12:48 PM

From gordonhofer Posts 31261 Last Nov-21
To Kevin(Sysop) [Msg # 213475.19 213475.18 ]

We might be able to discuss that question if someone would actually propose "socialized medicine" somewhere in this process.

There's something endearing about a certain level of faith and naivete, but what do you think is the object of the Democrat proposals?

#20 of 41 Posted Nov-4 1:05 PM

From John Clifton (Sysop) Posts 23875 Last Nov-21
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213475.20 213475.17 ]

<gh> Libs will never be willing to consider anything but socialized medicine while they have a majority.

<JC> I think they might have to consider an alternative if the GOP could put something forward like the privatized health care in the Netherlands.

<gh> It's interesting that your ideal continues to be a three year-old system in a country with a total population less than the combined totals of our 5 largest cities or less than Florida alone.

I didn't say it was my "ideal." It has elements I think are necessary for a getting Americans to look beyond ObamaCare--universality and privatization.

<gh> And while insurance is sold by private insurers, the state pays for low income people and 5% of the premiums for everyone.

What's your point? It's hardly surprising the government would pay for low income groups, or that it would toss in 5% or so to get compliance.

<gh> That's in a country whose total tax on a family of four is 68% higher than ours.

They want more government services. What does this have to do with whether or not a privatized universal health care system might work better than what we have now--or more to the point, work better than ObamaCare?

<gh> Or do you somehow believe the libs are willing to place socialized medicine and privatized universal care on the table at the same time?

<JC> Liberals still have support from the center for ObamaCare, even with the public option.

<gh> If that were enough, Reid wouldn't have just put the whole thing off until next year, by which time he and Madame Pelosi hope to browbeat enough Blue Dogs to go along.

What are you going to do? Declare a huge victory if you get them to turn the public option into a quasi public option of, say, cooperatives run by the government?

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American Issues

America's Direction

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