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Health and Fitness

When to test

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#1 of 14

     Posted Nov-12 12:47 PM   
Gail K. [sysop]
 
From  Gail K. [sysop]  Posts 182  Last 10:27 AM
To  All      [Msg # 1656.1 ]    
I recently went to my doctor for an annual touching base visit and prescription renewals.  He wants me to have an ultrasound of my carotid arteries.  That's for no reason other than I've never had one and knowing if there's plaque in my arteries could prevent a stroke. 

Well, there's been some discussion about whether or not my 91-year-old mother should have had a mammogram.  I sort of feel the same way about this ultrasound.  I'm 66 years old and there's bound to be some plaque in my arteries.  I guess the question is how much.   I feel like if I have it done, I'll end up with some kind of procedure to remove plaque in my carotid arteries. 

I'll probably do it eventually, because it's a precaution, but I keep putting off making the appointment.
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#2 of 14

     Posted Nov-12 1:32 PM   
Nancy C, Wizop
 
From  Nancy C, Wizop  Posts 674  Last Feb-1
To  Gail K. [sysop]      [Msg # 1656.2 Message 1656.2 replying to 1656.1 1656.1 ]    
Maybe it's what some docs call CYA testing.  They test for everything to make sure they miss nothing and thus can't get sued.

My doc always feels my carotid artery to see how it is performing, but I've never had an ultrasound of it.

When I went to the hospital, I think I had every test and scan imaginable when they were trying to determine what was wrong with me.  They found all sorts of other things that were not causing my symptoms.  For example, age-related brain atrophy, plaque in arteries, something in my heart or lungs that I can't remember.  When I talked to my internist, he said everyone gets these things at my age and there is nothing I can do.

OTOH, an ultrasound doesn't hurt and is interesting to look at.

Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#3 of 14

     Posted Nov-12 2:27 PM   
Patricia O.
 
From  Patricia O.  Posts 630  Last 12:08 PM
To  Nancy C, Wizop      [Msg # 1656.3 Message 1656.3 replying to 1656.2 1656.2 ]    
>>> Maybe it's what some docs call CYA testing.  They test for everything to make sure they miss nothing and thus can't get sued. <<<
My doctor simply notes on my chart that he's suggested certain tests, which I've declined.  After 20 years as his patient, he's learned that I rarely do tests unless there's an acute condition at that moment.
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#4 of 14

     Posted Nov-12 4:58 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 59  Last 12:26 PM
To  Gail K. [sysop]      [Msg # 1656.4 Message 1656.4 replying to 1656.1 1656.1 ]    

Personally -- having benefitted from ultrasound tests not just on carotid arteries as well as by noninvasive stress testing I can't imagine not having the tests if my doctor suggests them. A friend who had a routine check on the carotids found they were 75% blocked and had no idea from any symptoms.

I prefer to take decisions based on knowledge rather than ignorance since deciding not to take action is just as much a decision as deciding to go for some kind of treatment.

I don't think treatment is necessarily invasive and can be medication but don't you owe anyone -- even your mother -- the courtesy of taking some precautions to avoid a stroke leaving you paralysed?

I have confidence in both the primary care doctors I've had in the 15 years back here in the USA under Medicare that neither of them are heavy handed on invasive action. At present, at the suggestion of my primary, I'm going for pain management, (joints, lower back etc -- just had both knees done with Hyalgan) to a former orthopedic surgeon who no longer operates and only does pain management -- I like the idea that he's been inside and seen and touched the regions he's treating but feels under no compulsion to cut because his golf club fees are due. <g>

I do not have the same confidence in my gastro-ent surgeon, not because of his golf club but because he opened an out-patient surgery center near his office and I found myself in there more frequently than I liked for internal examinations when he already had said he could not get more than 15 inches up my intestines because of a sharp bend ..... So I just don't go to him any more for routine checkups; my primary knows why and agrees with me .....

In the case of your mother, I think it is a little different because the treatment if there is cancer does inevitably affect quality of life and arguably more rapidly than not having treatment for a malignancy would.

In our parish we have a small team of Franciscan sisters working as parish assistants and one of them was diagnosed with breast cancer in her 60's. She decided not to take any treatment for it and with a prognosis of about 18 months I think it was lived on for about 6 years of continuous and loving parish activity until only a few months before her death. One of her duties was looking after the local hospitals so I used to see her from time to time when I was in so I counted her as one of my friends.

An indication of how wonderful a person she was is that those of us in contact with her by email received an email from her the day after her funeral thanking us for our loving friendship and that we were not to mourn her since she was now where she had hoped to go.......

  Hugh

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#5 of 14

     Posted Nov-13 7:02 AM   
johnie1940brown
 
From  johnie1940brown  Posts 202  Last Feb-3
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 1656.5 Message 1656.5 replying to 1656.4 1656.4 ]    
I AGREE with everything you say Hugh!

My feeling is that folks who don't take their doctor's advice  should NEVER go to a doctor!

Bet those same ones are more than willing to take advice from a lawyer!!!!

Case closed on my part!
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#6 of 14

     Posted Nov-13 7:15 AM   
Nancy C, Wizop
 
From  Nancy C, Wizop  Posts 674  Last Feb-1
To  johnie1940brown      [Msg # 1656.6 Message 1656.6 replying to 1656.5 1656.5 ]    (Unread)
My feeling is that folks who don't take their doctor's advice  should NEVER go to a doctor!


That's pretty a strong opinion to say the least. 

Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#7 of 14

     Posted Nov-13 10:52 AM   
Gail K. [sysop]
 
From  Gail K. [sysop]  Posts 182  Last 10:27 AM
To  Nancy C, Wizop      [Msg # 1656.7 Message 1656.7 replying to 1656.2 1656.2 ]    
Nancy,

I can't accuse my doctor of sending me for CYA tests.  He's a great diagnostician and I'm sure just wants to be thorough.  I thought he was nuts when he sent me for a sleep study because my legs were swollen, but he was right.
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#8 of 14

     Posted Nov-13 10:56 AM   
Gail K. [sysop]
 
From  Gail K. [sysop]  Posts 182  Last 10:27 AM
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 1656.8 Message 1656.8 replying to 1656.4 1656.4 ]    
Hugh,

Obviously, my resistance to an ultrasound is irrational.  I'm sure I'll have it done after a short trip next week..  I'm just caught up in this whole business with my mother.

My gastro doc also has a financial interest in a surgical center.  There's a sign in the office disclosing that information.  I haven't found myself there more than the occasional colonoscopy and I'm fine with it.  It's nicer there than in the hospital.
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#9 of 14

     Posted Nov-13 1:20 PM   
Patricia O.
 
From  Patricia O.  Posts 630  Last 12:08 PM
To  johnie1940brown      [Msg # 1656.9 Message 1656.9 replying to 1656.5 1656.5 ]    (Unread)
>>> My feeling is that folks who don't take their doctor's advice  should NEVER go to a doctor! <<<
I think that's silly.  Doctors can present options, but it's still up to the patient to make the final decisions.

>>> Bet those same ones are more than willing to take advice from a lawyer!!!! <<<
Bet they aren't.

>>> Case closed on my part!
Are you a lawyer?
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#10 of 14

     Posted Nov-13 3:56 PM   
Nancy C, Wizop
 
From  Nancy C, Wizop  Posts 674  Last Feb-1
To  Patricia O.      [Msg # 1656.10 Message 1656.10 replying to 1656.9 1656.9 ]    
Doctors can present options, but it's still up to the patient to make the final decisions.

Absolutely.  That's what we have brains for.  No doctor knows everything.  In fact, they don't all agree.  Ultimately we are responsible for our own bodies, health, etc.

When my mother was in the nursing home, the doctor darn near killed her by overdosing her.  I insisted they quit giving her the Ativan and when the doctor came in, he put her back on it.  I called an ambulance and took her to the ED.  The doctor there said she almost died that day.  So I should have taken the advice of that doctor who nearly killed her?  I think not.

Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#11 of 14

     Posted Nov-13 6:44 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 59  Last 12:26 PM
To  johnie1940brown      [Msg # 1656.11 Message 1656.11 replying to 1656.5 1656.5 ]    (Unread)

I'm sorry I can't reciprocate -- I respect my doctors opinions but it's my body and my life, that I share with Dottie and others, but the ultimate decision is mine (or Dottie's).

People who take what their doctors say as gospel are taking a big risk.

  Hugh

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#12 of 14

     Posted Nov-13 6:46 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 59  Last 12:26 PM
To  Gail K. [sysop]      [Msg # 1656.12 Message 1656.12 replying to 1656.8 1656.8 ]    
I can understand the pre-occupation only too well but do remember that the testing will only take a few minutes and may enable you to continue to help your mother. If action is needed based on the information then you can consider the timing in combination of other commitments but also of how urgent it may be.

  Hugh

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#13 of 14

     Posted Nov-14 3:57 PM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 59  Last Feb-6
To  Gail K. [sysop]      [Msg # 1656.13 Message 1656.13 replying to 1656.1 1656.1 ]    

Sometimes a 2nd opinion from a medical professional might move your decision one way or the other.  I believe this country tends to over-medicate and over-test people.  Once the doctor ruled, now I think it is a joint decision.  Medicine is a art not a science.

Bob

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#14 of 14

     Posted Nov-14 4:06 PM   
Gail K. [sysop]
 
From  Gail K. [sysop]  Posts 182  Last 10:27 AM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 1656.14 Message 1656.14 replying to 1656.13 1656.13 ]    
Bob,

Give a kid a hammer, he'll find something to bang.  We may over test because the tests are available.

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